never over inflating my tires again

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by oil_burner, Apr 3, 2019.

  1. oil_burner

    oil_burner Active Member

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    what tread pattern inconsistency? The picture I posted is not my tire, its one I found online when I searched overinflated tires. there are numerous articles you can google that show tire wear patterns, they all point to premature wear down the centre when overinflated.

    As for "established here" I'll leave that one alone. I really don't care to convince anyone, especially those who already have a preconceived notion of what may be. Try emergency braking over rough pavement with your tires at 50psi.
     
  2. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Much of what is posted online is inseparable from 'conventional wisdom' left over from the old bias ply days. Many of us have very different first-hand experience, and some technical reasons why it ought not be happening anymore, at least for most users.

    Then you come along with what appears to be a good sample case to be investigated to help figure out what is really happening. But then it turns out that your evidence is already gone, your claimed tire size is wrong / bogus / misremembered, and your offered picture is wrong.

    The evidence has vanished. An opportunity has been lost ...
     
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  3. oil_burner

    oil_burner Active Member

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    So the straw man argument is because I couldn't remember the exact size of the tire (I'm pretty sure was a 195/65, but I do have 3 cars and I don't care to memorize them all), and because I didn't think to stop the Costco technician so I could take a picture of the tire, surely I must be making the whole thing up. Next time I'll be sure to bag the evidence and secure it against tampering, is there a Prius chat evidence room? Should I take a picture with today's newspaper and my odometer in the background?

    Frankly the entire thing is becoming rather irritating to me. I posted my experience so that others may benefit. If your goal is to somehow discredit me, or demand some hard proof, and to doubt my ability to look at a tire and see the centre is worn past the wear bars.... good grief I'll keep it to myself next time.
     
  4. oil_burner

    oil_burner Active Member

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    denial is a river in Egypt apparently, I see exactly what you meant.
     
  5. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Folks deny my experiences as well.

    I believe your tires wore out in the center.


    Mine wear prematurely on the edges


    Defective tires, blow outs and premature wear are relatively common problems
     
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  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    You have declared with 100% certainty that this center wear was from 'overinflation'. Many of us who use higher-than-door-jam-label pressures have first-hand reasons to doubt this. Some others keep declaring that we will see wear similar to the sample picture you grabbed online, along with warnings of further gloom and doom. We don't see it happening.

    I strongly suspect that sometime was else happening that neither you nor we have yet identified. This was potentially a good case to explore for such factors, ft the evidence was still on hand and accurately displayed.

    If your ego is fragile enough to take this as nothing but an attack on your credibility, then I cannot help you.
     
  7. oil_burner

    oil_burner Active Member

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    you are more than welcome to analyze the photo I found online, and rigorously explore whatever factors you believe you can ascertain by looking at a photograph on the internet. Please enlighten me, how did that tire suffer abnormal wear from the centre if not by overinflation? You're convinced this isn't possible with radial tires. Are you trying to say that is a bias ply tire?

    Better yet here is a complete data set. My tires were 195/65/15, they were run to 25,631 miles and rotated every 3445 miles. I weigh 176lbs but sometimes my coworker rode in the passenger seat who is 250lbs, other times my wife who is 120lbs. The tread depth measures 7mm at the outer groove and 3mm on the inner groove. Now please, pray tell, what is your pseudo scientific method or logic, as to the hidden factor supporting your argument? Would you like my camber and toe-in numbers on my alignment as well?
     
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    I won't try to diagnose a random unknown case. If not a pic of your own tire, then don't bother.
    Wow, that is sudden precision for information that simply wasn't known earlier, and much of it supposedly lost. I don't want to know where it was really pulled out of.

    I need to swap winter to summer sets on both our Prius and Subaru within the coming week. Checking the Prius fuel & maintenance log, its summer set of Michelin Defenders (treadlife rating 820) has rolled up 33,213 miles across four yearly sessions on the car, this upcoming summer season will be its 5th time (separate wheel sets, so no remounting). (Originally used for winter, then pushed to summer when OEMs retired and true winter tires acquired). The top unit on the stack in the shed was 4 grooves, measuring 6, 7, 7, and 6/32nds, inside to outside respectively. So despite having run its entire life at an even higher pressure than yours, between 40 and 44 psi (depending on my mood and varying front vs rear position), it is wearing more at the edges than center, just as Rmay's tires are. And despite greater distance than yours, it still has deeper tread remaining.

    I'll even get pics when swapping in daylight. Of my own tires, not random internet samples. Hopefully for the Subaru too, though not sure the available sets have enough miles to be meaningful (i.e. more than your claimed distance).

    Based on plenty of experience, I strongly suspect that you have something else besides mere inflation pressure causing that center wear. Maybe even your non-paved roads, though I do a chunk of those too. But since you are already set in your explanation, I'll likely just settle to show my far more even wear at even higher pressure than your tires, then be done with this case. A better deep dive / comparison / exploration will have to wait for a future poster's case.
     
  9. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Here they are, just before going on to the car (actually just half done now, waiting for a break between rain showers):
    DSCN1178c..JPG
    Remaining tread depths do vary slightly, but all units have at least 6.5 /32nds in the center two grooves, and slightly less on the outer grooves. 33k miles, both more distance and greater inflation pressure than OP's tires, with no sign of excess center wear.
     
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  10. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Thanks for sharing your experience with us oil_burner.

    I have been using Michelin Defenders 195/65/R15 exclusively on my now gone 2010 and current 2015 Prii. (Actually, Defenders are the only tires I buy for all my daily use street vehicles.) I have always kept them at 42F/40R, rotated and balanced every 5K miles and I have never had the wear issue you encountered. The only 2 variables I see is the brand/model tire and year/model/GEN Prius. Draw your own conclusions.

    By the way...I am a career mechanic of many decades with multiple licenses...and change more tire/wheel assys in one week than most here will do in a lifetime.
     
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  11. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Prius now done, while Subaru is suffering the next rain delay.

    Two cars, four seasonal tire sets, all run well above door jamb recommended pressures, none showing any premature center wear. As expected with steel belted tires, as those steel belts should constrain nearly all the "rubber ballooning" to the sidewalls, away from the steel belts under the tread. But since the other sets all have fewer miles on them (a few k on Prius winter set, 14k and 21k on Subaru sets), skeptics can legitimately point out that they haven't run long enough to display premature center wear, so I won't bother picturing them.
     
    #51 fuzzy1, Apr 6, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
  12. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    I think oilburner needs to change his tire brand. I routinely get 80-100k on Michelins with mpg at ratings. That is over 300k miles of Prius driving. And yes, I change the factory tires if necessary to get Michelins.
     
  13. ALS

    ALS Active Member

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    It depends on your driving conditions that determine the wear on the tires. My Volvo is only driven on the highway for longer trips. If I put more mileage on the car, I might see 80K-100K out of a set of tires. The reason I had to get new tires last year was due to age not miles.

    With my Prius the daily driver I'm lucky to get 25K miles out of a set of tires. The car is used for short trips at mostly lower speeds, 40 mph and less. I'm also dealing with lots of hills around me including a lot of stop and go traffic. That will cause more wear on the tires than if I was driving at a constant speed. If I was driving thirty miles a day on the highway to and from work instead of my normal routine I'd probably get 60K or more miles out of a set of tires.
     
  14. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    I think it has more to do with driving style AND the quality of the tires. Its clear that many factory tires are worn at 30k and its also proven (at least to me) that letting the hybrid system do most of the braking saves tires and brakes. Not that I am a slow driver. We have 85 mph tollways but most of the miles are in and around San Antonio over winding two lane hill country roads. So I think driving style and brand of tire are the key factors. Over 300k miles and two Prii, I have never had to replace brake components of any kind. And the Michelins still had adequate tread to pass inspection when they were replaced. In fact the last set replaced at 90k had two tires good enough to command dollars on Craigslist.
     
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  15. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    I have never gotten much over 50,000 miles out of a set of tires and it didn't matter what brand.
    I drive so little anymore I have to change them by age.
     
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  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Road surfaces also seem to make a treadlife difference. Not just unpaved surfaces (gravel, dirt, rock), but the texture of pavements too. Winter and wet climates often seem to have rougher pavements to allow better braking traction in comprised weather conditions. Drier zones can allow smoother surfaces.

    Does ambient temperature also influence treadlife? I.e. does the rubber peel off faster in scorching summer heat?

    Long ago, I saw a coarse CONUS map showing approximate expected treadlife of a 100-rated tire. Very long ago, when that was still a normal rating. There was a quite considerable regional variation, but I don't find it anymore, just some text acknowledging that such variation exists. But OP is beyond the boundaries of that map.
     
  17. NortTexSalv04Prius

    NortTexSalv04Prius Active Member

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    FYI
    Being the owner of a Gen2 and also having purchased a set of 4 brand new Michelin Energy X 185/65/15 …. I will not repeat that ever again...The exterior of the tire sidewalls do not hold up …..Michelin is overpriced and has durability issues IMHO
     
  18. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    The ONLY Michelin I will personally stand behind is the Defender.
     
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  19. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Defend the Defender(y).
     
  20. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    What octane gasoline should I use?
    What brand/weight or type of Oil?
    What is the best PSI to inflate my tires?

    Ask any one of those questions and you better be ready for a lot of different responses.
    I don't think it's that people are trying to be unhelpful, it's just that so many people have almost ritualistic habits in regards to those actions, that they really, really believe in.

    I'll give my opinion, on any of them, but long ago, I've given up on trying to defend that opinion IF someone has a different practice. You're just not going to convince someone that they are wrong, or their practice isn't the best. It's nearly a religion.

    For the most part, my advice in those areas is purely "Owners Manual" based. Which is boring, but it works.
     
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