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Never Plugged In - EV to HV Ratio?

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by drjman, Dec 5, 2013.

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  1. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    I'm picking up a 2014 Base plug in next week and I've been doing a lot of research. I've really been interested in the economics of it all (gas vs electric, regen, etc) and I'm looking for some data that I think may be hard to find. For those who never plug in, what is your EV to HV ratio %?

    I work in IT, so I have three desktop computers running 24/7 at home. That, along with some other moderate power usage, puts me deep into tier 4 every month with Southern California Edison. So any extra kwh added to my monthly bill is going to be charged at an average of .31 cents per kwh. So basically I would be paying around 8 cents per electric mile (11 miles per 3kwh charge). Gas at $3.50 a gallon is 7 cents a mile(@ 50mpg. If gas went up to $4 per gallon, that's still only 8 cents a mile with 50mpg. So basically, with my electricity usage, gas prices would have to skyrocket in order for me to EVER want to plug in.

    I would like to know from those of you who never plug in, what is your EV to HV ratio? I'm just wondering how many "free" miles I'd be getting by the regenerative process. I know that the ratio will be different for everyone, but just getting a rough idea would help. Like, 1% EV or maybe more 7% EV? Small numbers like that add up when calculating an "effective" MPG.
    I'm still getting the car regardless. The MPG and the carpool stickers are worth the premium in price, period. (Especially when compared to the Sequoia MPG, :eek: )

    No, with my job, I can't really reduce my energy consumption enough to matter (i'm 300kwh into tier 4 for November, lol. No chance to drop down in tiers). For those who aren't paying the maximum price per kwh, charging every night is definitely worth it, economically.

    Thanks in advance for your input!

    TL;DR
    It doesn't make sense for me to EVER plug in. Those who never plug in, what is your EV to HV % Ratio?
     
    #1 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  2. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    Why buy a plugin then, instead of a better equiped III or IV for the same or less money?
     
    #2 mindmachine, Dec 5, 2013
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can't have any ev if you don't plug in unless you go down some major hills to get the battery up over the hv level. it won't add up to a pitance. why not plug in and enjoy the luxury of electric driving for 1 cent per mile? you'll be doing the environment and country a favor and loving the experience at the same time. that's only 15 cents or so every time you plug in. all the best!(y)
     
    #3 bisco, Dec 5, 2013
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  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Even at the T4 rates it seems to me that it makes more sense to plug it in. Even at a buck a charge, that's only going to raise your electricity rates a relatively small amount.
    If your budget is so tight that an extra 30 bucks is going to leave you eating Ramen noodles three times a day, then you really don't need to be driving a new anything.

    As far as boosting your EV ratio...
    Ask your employer about plugging in at work, and see if there are charging stations where you regularly shop.
    You're already committed to buying the car, so just drive it as green as you can (both $$ and the other kind) and get on with your day.

    Good Luck!
     
    #4 ETC(SS), Dec 5, 2013
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  5. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Can you go solar? This could drop you down into Tier 1 or 2, probably with a small solar setup.

    I have 28 245W panels and get 11.5 MWh per year out of it. I would easily get out of the highest tiers with a system half this size. Even so, my system will pay itself back (I have PG$E) in about 5 years. In So Cal you should be able to do better than this.

    Looks like you may not have time-of-use rates available with Southern California Edison which could be nice with solar.
     
    #5 iplug, Dec 5, 2013
  6. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    It's not 1 cent a mile for me, it's 8 cents. The same as gas basically. As far as the environment goes, CA generates most of its electricity from fossil fuels (mostly natural gas). Fracking is arguably worse for the environment than drilling for oil, but better mpg is just that. That's why I'm getting one.
     
    #6 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  7. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    For me, it's more expensive per mile to plug in than gas at its current price, period. A budget has nothing to do with it. Why pay more per mile?
     
    #7 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    What about a separate TOU meter? Does Cali still have installation subsides? If not, your state rebate may pay for the second meter.
     
    #8 fotomoto, Dec 5, 2013
  9. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    Car pool stickers. My time is the most expensive commodity.
     
    #9 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  10. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    Great suggestion. That would decrease the cost down to 9 cents per kWh from 31 cents. I am leasing for 3 years, so I would have to do the math. It's possible that it may take longer than that to recoup the investment for installation.
     
    #10 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  11. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    Regenerative braking doesn't count towards your EV ratio. It might register something at first but it sorts itself out eventually.

    FWIW, I bought my PiP for HOV access same as you. The low cost differential for the near identically trimmed Prius 3 made the decision simple. I am in Tier 3 where rates were $0.29 per kWh. I still plugged it in. Here's why:

    EV mode subsidizes HV mode to increase fuel economy. All my low speed driving is done on EV. Almost all of HV mode is on the freeway where I get maximum fuel economy. So I almost never idle at red lights or parking lots as the engine warms to temperature. Even if I don't go on the freeway, I can selectively choose to switch to HV mode on a long stretch of an expressway so that during engine warmup I get some mileage out of it. I even "golf cart mode" the car in my neighborhood as I approach my house by feathering the gas pedal to get the battery down to 3 or 4 bars remaining. This is generally not recommended on a regular Prius because the battery will be regenerated by the ICE which is lossy. My battery will be generated by the plug.

    I average 59 mpg in HV mode after subtracting out KWh. I rarely forget to plug in my vehicle so I don't have enough data to compare but I would roughly estimate I get 55-56 mpg if I didn't plug it in.


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    #11 mmmodem, Dec 5, 2013
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  12. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    The cost is >$1000. 3 years is not enough time.


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    #12 mmmodem, Dec 5, 2013
  13. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I know the Federal rebate goes to the leasing company not the lessee so I assume the state rebate does the same.
     
    #13 fotomoto, Dec 5, 2013
  14. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    I think for you, electric is slightly cheaper than gas. Even though small, you do get a benefit. There are a finite number of miles you can get from a charge and whether those are used to subsidize the HV or used in EV, they cost the same.

    As long as I stay in tier 4, a mile traveled in electric will be more expensive than a mile with gas (even at $4 a gallon).
     
    #14 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  15. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I agree with the others. Look into solar and/or simply get a charge at free places.

    Also, I think you will find that most times per year that you will be able to get more than 11 miles range. Also, for very short trips your HV cost will be more than 7 cents per miles.

    Also, you have to assume that gas prices will rise again.
     
    #15 markabele, Dec 5, 2013
  16. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    You'll save a little with the electric miles even in T4, since you can selectively apply that juice to the lowest mpg uses (short trips, mostly). Use HV on the freeway.

    Also, as to TOU investment, will this be the only car you ever plug in? I would assume your future cars would also use some wall juice.
     
    #16 ksstathead, Dec 5, 2013
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  17. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Yes, definitely something else to consider - If you're doing lots of very short trips, you're not going to get anywhere near 50mpg without plugging in, and this is one of the really nice things to use EV for. Great to avoid the warm-up penalty.
     
    #17 iplug, Dec 5, 2013
  18. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    That's the kicker. EV is used when gas mileage is the worst (in most cases). Thanks for the input. I don't have one yet, so all of my assumptions are based on specs, math and theory.
     
    #18 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  19. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    I really don't do many short trips, but I do see the value. The 2 miles getting to the freeway will be more economical on EV than HV, for sure. My trips are not 70mpg door to door.
     
    #19 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
  20. drjman

    drjman Junior Member

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    Good point. In three years though, we could be on to fuel cells. Electric cars are just a stop gap, but they're not going away completely any time soon.
     
    #20 drjman, Dec 5, 2013
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