New car gas engine first start of the day noise -normal or not?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by FRCornelis, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    I suppose it is possible to have a 0w-16 that is 6A and not 6B, but not according to the specs as I have read them (but clearly I’m not perfect ;) ). If it truly is Toyota’s oil then it is 6B. The 5 quarts I bought aren’t labeled any different than yours. For a clearer understanding of this issue check out PQIA.org.
    Ironically, if what people say on this site is accurate, and Toyota’s oil is actually made by MobileOne, a oil sample comparison between the two I stumbled upon showed Toyota’s oil exceeded MobileOne in several critical areas, one being anti ware additives.
    Everything I have found states the only oil that meets 6B standards is 0w-16, and, ironically, 0-w16 matches or exceeds flow specs of 0-w20 across the temperature ranges (but then this old fool doesn’t know much;) )
     
  2. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    LoL, I'm not in my teen years either, being 40 & showing... yesterday when lifting my car using floor jacks and cribs, I thought to myself "It's time for me to get one of those QuickJack lifters" to mitigate the physical effort.

    Anyways, I'm glad you posted about w16 matching w20, exactly my thoughts!
    However, paying close attention to the Castrol and Pennzoil labels that actually state GF-6B, they also claim backwards compatibility same as w20, the only difference between w16 & w20 on the Toyota branded bottle that I can see is the shape of the API logo, no ILSAC specs at all on ANY of the Toyota bottle labels.
    & yes, my bottles are Toyota branded oil purchased at the dealership.

    -FC
     
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  3. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    There is an article on the pqia site dated late late 2020 that addresses the backward compatibility issue and the labeling (or lack of). If in the future an engine problem arose due to lubrication issues, and a customer could provide proof of Toyota oil of the proper grade purchased through a dealership I seriously doubt Toyota would even hesitate to make things right.
    That alone is a huge advantage of going the route you and I have chosen.
    I looked at MobileOne oils here and all the ones on the shelf lacked the 6B or the emblem indicating 6B capability. So I went with Toyota oil.
     
  4. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    Alright, oil/filter has been changed (big question at the end, wait for it… and help me out please)
    No troubles removing the oil filter using the end wrench I got from the dealer.
    Most difficult part? Removing the drain plug blue washer, oh yeah!!! it looked like welded to the pan, my weapon of choice was a flat screwdriver and a razor blade next to the edge of the washer, so screwdriver won’t scratch the pan, after three solid hand knocks off it went but it did take me a while to figure that one out because I refused to reuse the same washer. I measured the exact amount of oil drained into a new container so let it drain for more than 1 hour (went to lunch) and after squeezing all I could from the filter I measured exactly 5 US quarters! That is roughly about 1/2 extra quart that explains why my oil stick always showed a bit over the max dot. No big deal, I don’t think that would harm any motor with 1k of driving. Absolutely NO metal shavings that I could see, I even used a magnet into the container, but it didn’t pick anything. I still have to cut open the oil filter to see if I find anything but not sure no metal shavings is bad or good thing.
    Now the strangest occurrence… please, please gen4 owners advise:
    After putting back the oil 4.4qt to be exact, I fired the ICE under Maintenance Mode to circulate the oil and inspect for leaks, yes I heard the tick-tick that always happens after an oil/filter change and it went away as expected but… for the first time after owning the car I got the chance to pay attention to the idling sound: there is this other noise that caught my attention really badly, like a “clack-clack-clack” along the normal engine sound. The motor spinning at about 1300rpm (per OBD2 scanner) while having the hood open and my ear next to the wheel, it’s very noticeable, I describe it like a diesel noise!!! Of course, I’m guessing this happened upon delivery, but I really never, never got to hear the engine idling before because the thing always runs on electric-only until I hit the main road and it’s probably not audible from the cabin anyways, so I got to hear it with close attention today while in Maintenance Mode. I’m not claiming this happened after my oil change & I beleive I did hear this before one time the ICE was recharging the HB battery and I happend to be outside of the car picking up mail, but of course, being a new car I just ignored it. Now that I'm paying attention is a different story. Can any of you relate? Is this a problem?
    It's sounds like a knock, but it isn’t. If I have to take a wild guess it seems to be from the black box -inverter? I could be wrong. It drives totally normal, and of course I don’t hear any rattling when driving or pushing the motor or the car switches from EV to GAS while driving.
    I went for a test drive and into a parking lot to see if I can reproduce the noise, but of course the thing is on electricity only so it’s hard to get the ICE idle normally, I tried depressing the accelerator until half way, when the motor spins 2500 RPM it sounds normal to me when spinning faster, or at least I’m unable to hear anything abnormal from the cabin while holding the gas pedal.
    Can someone check that on your gen4 and advise?
    Another cue is that noise I’m describing, is the same short-lived noise I can hear right after the engine stops. Let’s say you press the gas to force the engine on and then you release it then the motor shuts down immediately and that’s when you hear that "clack and a half" what I think is the same type of noise (this happens on my gen3 as well)
    I will play with my 2015 in Maintenance Mode tomorrow to see if the same noise happens.
    The “rattling” doesn’t appear to be consistent with RPMs , again it’s like it’s something else apart from the ICE but don't quote me on that. If I force the engine on by pressing the gas it starts and shuts off normal but I CANNOT hear the clacking from the driver seat, I must be outside of the car.

    Any ideas?
    -FC
     
    #24 FRCornelis, Jul 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2022
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  5. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I don't mean this in a nasty way, but I have to say that you are seriously obsessing. Just drive it. All those noises are normal to internal combustion engines.

    If you take a cylinder head laying upside down and slam one of the valves closed, it makes a nice solid click. Do that with 16 of them about 1,000 times a minute each, and you'll be amazed that your engine is as quiet as it is. At higher RPM the frequency of the clicks becomes high enough that the individual clicks blend into a continuous sound which gets lost in the intake roar, and other rackets created by these amazingly complicated devices we call engines. Also mixed in is the rattle from cams, rocker arms, and valve stems.

    The quietest Prius engine I ever "heard," was one that failed to start because the person who put it together forgot to put back the rocker arms. MG1 spun the engine and it had no clatters or rattles at all. Just the hum of MG1. :whistle:
     
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  6. prime grip

    prime grip Member

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    This is what i've been using for my 2021 Prime , EVERY 5,000 Miles. IMG_1030.jpeg
     
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  7. prime grip

    prime grip Member

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    Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 8.35.13 AM.png
     
  8. prime grip

    prime grip Member

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    Can't beat the prices at Walmart. 2 weeks ago i bought it for $24.99 now it went up $ 3.00.

    Screen Shot 2022-07-03 at 8.45.13 AM.png
     
  9. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    Working from home slowly kills you, Zoom calls I just can’t take it anymore, it does things to you, I wat my life back!

    Anyways, perhaps you are right, I do know how the noise of a ticking valve for sure that happens until oil pressure is built, but this is certainly not the sound I’ trying to describe, this is more like rattle instead of tapping valve train noise. I noticed when I poked my head under the engine to check leaks while the engine was running so I though it’s coming from the low end /block, then my OCD kicked in full throttle and was able to pick it up by standing next to the engine bay. HOWEVER, all the things you mentioned about all the other components, increased frequency of noise that blends it all make perfect sense.
    This is not the first time I do oil changes, I’ve been maintaining cars since my early 20s and I don’t remember this kind of noise from the engine idling but I’m extremely OCD for sure so you are probably correct. For a second, I thought “Did I do something with the oil change that messed something?” or maybe it was something more related to the hybrid design.
    After all,.. driving a Prius every day, I don’t get to hear the engine idling at all so I probably forgot how an engine idles.

    -FC
     

    Attached Files:

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  10. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    I wish I could be of some help here (here it comes ;) )….. but, I’m a product of the mid 1960’s when it comes to cars, so running an engine at even slightly elevated rpm’s with no load makes me nervous as …. Even putting it in maintenance mode to check for leaks made me nervous. I did it for the prerequisite 5 minutes or so; didn’t hear anything that made me suspect a problem.
     
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Try it with a Prime. I have about 3,100 miles on this tank so far and over Quarter tank left. :D

    Remember. Your '22 is still under full warranty. If you think there's something wrong, take it to the dealer. If there is something wrong, Toyota will pay them to fix it. But I'm about 99.9999999999999% sure it's fine. :)
     
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  12. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Active Member

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    Yep; bought a really cheap RX400h that way. He snapped the timing belt @ 180K; It was the original - never replaced. Someone told him it was a chain - I told him NOT on hybrids. He showed me all his records and the car was cherry. Even the leather seats was barely worn. He tells me; "but the engine idles fine - it just doesn't run." So I pull the upper timing belt cover off and ask him; "do you know what's suppose to be on that sprocket?" He then states that he couldn't let it go for that cheap. I said OK, fine - I just saved you the $300 dealer diagnostic fee and started heading for my car. He goes; "OK; cash and you get it off my driveway today."
    I actually got really lucky with that one; the belt must've snapped there on his driveway. None of the valves were bent; I replaced the belt and all idler bearings and it fired up, ran like a champ.
     
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  13. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    Yeah...
    For a minute... and with my luck I thought.... "great! if I do have a problem for real they (Toyota) are going to blame me for changing the oil too soon" I did let it drain for 3 hours cause I stepped away for a while, but that should not hurt anything.
    I just checked my 2015 and it sounds about the same, so it must be "me" thing.
    In a positive side, the first ICE fired up this morning DID NOT make that "normal clicking valve noise" that made me start this whole thread (I only report this because someone here posted the noise on his car went away after he replaced the factory oil filter) I used to hear that noise every first fire-up each morning, not today at least.

    What do you think about finding absolutely no metal shaving at 1146 miles? good or bad?


    Anyways, happy fourth!
    -FC
     
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  14. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    The no shavings would make me feel really great about buying the car. :)
     
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  15. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    Really?. I'm a product of the 80s so never thought about it... like you I did it to follow the instructions.
    I understand it's not a good idea to REV the engine at higher RPMs w/out load.
    But... what about the normal ICE cars that they just ide at the red lights for a few minutes with no load?

    Thank you for reporting back by the way!
    -FC
     
  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I think that is as it should be. Modern engine bearings do not grind themselves smooth. They are made that way.
     
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  17. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    You are more than welcome. Yep, my fear isn’t based on current science, just one of those things that’s hard to overcome:) :)
     
  18. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    Got it!
    I'm glad I'm not alone with things hard to ovecome, LoL
    -Regards.
     
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  19. FRCornelis

    FRCornelis Junior Member

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    First of all, happy 4th to all of us!
    Now, one last come back to my topic,
    I decided to make a short video clip, it’s only a minute.
    When I first started recording, the HB battery was charging so the RPM were a little high to feed the generator, I went from the driver side wheel to the passenger and to me, nothing remarkable other than normal engine sounds (I can still detect it) BUT, please wait for second 40s where the HB battery stops charging and the car drops to real IDLE, if you listen carefully, you can tell the noise I’m trying to describe that sounds like marbles to me. I don’t think my 3gen does that rattle.
    Would you please take a listen to the link below and let me know what you think, if that sounds normal and I’m the issue and not the car? As I really don’t want to bring it to service, go to that hassle if someone else can relate to this but also I don’t want to live with the issue if I really have a problem.
    I apologize for the insistence but, never heard this before & I really wish I'm the issue here.
    Thank you!!



    Regards,
    -FC
     
  20. Doug McC

    Doug McC Member

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    The Gen4 has a different inverter/converter than your Gen3. That being said, I heard, what sounded like to me, a relay picking up or dropping out. Definitely not something I would even think twice about.
     
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