1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

new Enginer Kit

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by cproaudio, Oct 24, 2010.

  1. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    cproaudio, sounds like you got a really good result! none of mine have been that good. were your temperature sensors connected on the bms? i've now had two faulty bms's and the theory is the temperature sensors killed it :(
     
  2. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Yeah I connected the temp sensor even though the BMS manual says not to. I got the BMS16D Ver 3.0. The USB cord is about 6'. I added a 6' extension cable and the LCD display has faded. The light still works. The temp readout is in 5C increments. I read that Ver 3.1 came with 5 meter USB cable and the temp read out is now in 1C increments. I did another run today with grill blocking 50% top and 100% bottom. It really screwed up the outside temperature sensor. It started out at 57F and ended with 61F. The distance driven was just a bit over 23 miles and I barely hit 99.9mpg on the dash display. I did a couple of EV accelerations from dead stop to 42mph and still had 6 bars on the HV battery. This was never possible without the Enginer Kit. It was painfully slow but it got up there. I really need to do the coolant temperature hack. There where times when I had to move from parking lot to another parking lot and the coolant temp at 155F and the ICE started for about 10 seconds then shut off.

    Edit: I changed my driving technique to stealth mode as much as possible. That's how I was able to achieve near 100+mpg. Since I installed my Enginer kit, I've filled up the tank and reset the Trip B. My current Trip B is 50 miles and 99.9MPG
     
  3. bagwell

    bagwell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    592
    49
    0
    Location:
    the woodlands, tx
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced

    am I missing it in your post or did you not mention your average speed over the 34 miles?
     
  4. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I didn't mention it because it's in the picture. Incase you couldn't see the picture, it's 22mph. I don't think avg spd is all that important because I didn't just go and drive for nothing. I stopped at a bank, grocery store, and AM/PM. I just never turn the car off.
     
  5. bagwell

    bagwell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    592
    49
    0
    Location:
    the woodlands, tx
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    oops, my bad...I missed the pic on my small screened laptop.

    I was wondering how the mpg would be at a 45mph avg speed over about 27 miles (my commute to work)....thoughts?
     
  6. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I got this system for $2290. It came with a 2 year warranty. If you drive 35 or more miles a day, you'll deplete the battery down to 0%. Depleting the battery down to 0% will still yield about 2000 charges. That's about 5 1/2 years of charging every day, give or take. The next available system is the PICC system retail at $12,500. Granted it is the best system out right now. The 4Kwh Enginer kit has been sold for $2000 when it's on sale (Black Friday week). For the price of one PICC system I can buy at least 5 Eginer kits. 5 Kits will last at least 25 years. It's possible to recover the cost of Enginer kit in it's life time but not possible with the PICC kit. PICC kit cost so much because it's the best system for Gen II and Gen III Prius. It allows cruising in EV only at up to 70MPH but it will spin the ICE without burning fuel. I doubt it'll accelerate in EV only up to that speed in a timely matter. It'll probably still need the ICE for acceleration. It has EV range of about 30-40miles. It replaces the OEM battery so regen is possible. No regen for the Enginer kit.
    As for voiding factory warranty, I highly doubt it. There are only 3 wires that attach to the Prius's electrical system, ready signal (12V+), high voltage positive and high voltage negative. There is a ground wire but you can just ground it at any point. The rest of the system just sits on top of the spare tire. You'd attach more wires to the Prius's electrical system with a stereo than with an Enginer kit.

    The 5KW inverter will not sustain 45MPH EV. The best I did was 43MPH then gradually down to 42 then 41. It will sustain 41mph for at least 2 miles and still have 6 bars on the battery. It's hard to know how long the Enginer kit will sustain 40+mph at a time. The kit will run out of juice between 15 and 20 miles in EV only. I think you'll probably avg at least 80mpg depending on how you drive and if there are traffic lights or stop signs.
     
  7. bagwell

    bagwell Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2005
    592
    49
    0
    Location:
    the woodlands, tx
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    thanks for the info - right now I can pull off about 62mpg right now on this commute, 27 miles at about 45-50mph, on a decent day in warm temps.

    please keep us posted on MPG numbers as you can.

    thanks.
     
  8. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You should be a good candidate for the kit if you are pulling off 62mpg without it and rolling at speeds of under 55mph. If you are using the roads that I suspect you are (gleaning from your starting and ending points), you will see some good numbers. I would bet ~ 80-99mpg would be completely normal. When my Gen II is in hybrid mode and warmed up, it is not unusual for me to go considerable distances at speeds in the 40s completely on EV (pulse and glide of course).
     
  9. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    One week with the Enginer kit. I've driven the car with the kit for 7 days and 240.9 miles. Of those 240.9, I've averaged just a bit over 99.9mpg as you can see my MID displays below. Now for the sad part. It was fun will it lasted. Today on my way home, my converter fried. I heard a buzzing sound from the kit in the back. After that, I heard a loud electrical pop. After that, burnt smell filled the cabin. I've already sent a warranty replacement notice with Enginer. I hope I can get my system up and running by next week.
     

    Attached Files:

    • a01.jpg
      a01.jpg
      File size:
      114.4 KB
      Views:
      910
    • a02.jpg
      a02.jpg
      File size:
      109.7 KB
      Views:
      884
    • a03.jpg
      a03.jpg
      File size:
      92.7 KB
      Views:
      845
    • a04.jpg
      a04.jpg
      File size:
      91.4 KB
      Views:
      721
  10. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    That is an awesome result. Once you get your new converter in i'd love to see a video of what your road conditions are like. also, looking at the data from your SD card, what sort of amperage are you pulling from the kit?
     
  11. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    Would anyone be interested in a write up on my Enginer install?
    I know there are several Enginer installers frequent this forum and would probably prefer all the Enginer technical informations be kept in the Enginer user or installer forum. I totally understand that.

    I used to be a car electronics installer for over 12 years. I've seen many detail instructions regarding car stereos, videos, alarms, navigations and other related electronics on the internet. I am greatful of those instructions, especially the12volt.com Keep in mind that having instructions doesn't mean that people will go and start doing their own installs. Most people would still prefer to take their electronics and have them professionally installed due to lack of experience, the necessary tools, or the fear of damaging their cars even though they have total access to the detailed and vehicle specific instructions.

    I want to write this because it gives people an idea what's involved in an Enginer installation and why the installation costs 500 to 1500 dollars or more of their hard earned money. Who knows? Maybe after seeing what's involved in the installation people who think they can do their own installs would come to their senses and have it installed professionally.
     
  12. markf57

    markf57 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2006
    78
    17
    0
    Location:
    Longmont, Colorado
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    IMHO, this is no longer needed, since Jack will stop selling to the public for self installs on February 1st.
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    3,686
    699
    2
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    As Markf57 stated, this is correct and the Enginer threads will fade away whiting PriusChat.
    The interest in the Enginer product will get diminished because of future lack of public exposure and an attractive cheap price; and that was the successfulness of the Enginer Kit, $$$$.
     
  14. itndave

    itndave Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2009
    22
    4
    0
    Location:
    San Mateo CA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Very interested in the DIY option, I'm a auto/heavy diesel mechanic, A+ certified, Cisco certified etc. I feel confident, as long as I have a roll of duct tape, vice grips, and a ball peen hammer I'm good to go:rockon:
     
  15. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Ha. That is one LOOOOONG school zone. ;)

    I have gotten an average increase of ~ 6-10mpg using my kit in real world conditions with plenty of freeway driving where the kit is nigh useless without special tweaking of pots by methods only installers are privy to. Whereas I normally get ~ 46mpg, I am now getting between 50 and 56mpg. My best treks are in mixed mode in areas where the speed limit is < 40mph. This is where the Enginer kit could potentially pay for itself over a few years provided you did some serious mileage at such speeds.
     
  16. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    School zone?? Wth are you talking about? This is real world driving. The speed limit around here is 45-50MPH and not a closed course test track where I drove none stop at 20mph. I wish I can drive on roads with <40mph. If you're getting only 50-56mpg with Enginer kit then there is something seriously wrong with your kit or driving technique. I'd be ashamed to announce that my PHEV Prius only increased 10mpg. I pulled my kit of the car today since the converter is bad and still manage to get 57mpg for 40 miles of driving including 10 miles of freeway. Is yours a Gen II or III? Did you look at the HSI to make sure you're not using ICE? The AVG speed don't mean squat. It also accounts for a lot 0 mph waiting in the traffic.
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. sww

    sww New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    1
    0
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thought of adding my few cents of experience to the enginer kit. I have a 4kw version in a 2007 gen II prius.

    Fuel consumption is very much a function of driving style, driving condition and environmental conditions.

    Before the kit and before driving style changes I used to get 42-45 in winter time and 51-52 summertime in a mixed local ( 25-35 ) and freeway driving. When if found out about the pulse and glide method things got better. (oddly my other prius 06 driven by a different driver seems to be getting a better milage, more freeway than local thou)

    I then added an ev button to see what it would be like. Obviously you get just a short distance out of it.

    Then I came across the enginer kit and installed it in December. Funny, my BMS was missing too :).

    Since then my mileage, same streets, times and distances has change to only 63 mpg at best. I drive conservatively try to use ev mode as much as possible. However on the freeway you can't be too slow around or get run over by fast traffic.

    That was in the winter. Now it is getting warmer and I see the following problems. At around 10 am the ev mode is practically not available due to the traction battery reaching 45C and denies ev mode. 20 miles are quickly reached in my commute and the 4kw kit is depleted then. On top, driving in ev mode is using way more amps then the enginer kit delivers (up to 16 amps). So quick sprints to match traffic are detrimental to conservative driving.

    One major issue that has cropped up and I am still trying to resolve is that the enginer kit creates a lot of RF noise. Now in general this is not an issue. However on AM it can be noticed. But I also happen to be radio amateur with tons of radios. Using any hf or VHF radios while the enginer kit is running desensitizes the radios due to rfi. Also, at charging my house is flooded with rf noise from the charger that is demonstrably from the charger.

    Now there were some comments in previous posts in regard to " professional installers tweaking some pots" if those tweaks are not mentioned in any install manual i would have some concerns. In an email with the enginer distributor I was told "no modifications to the prius were needed". I would understand this as "no tweaks required" as well.

    Well, was it worth the trouble. I think so. However, breaking even on gas consumptions will take some time. At this point I am just looking at it as a novelty, conversation piece, and generally a good idea of saving gas. Right now, I am getting about 200 miles more per tank and the warmer time should be even better in fuel consumptions.

    Whoever said the prius was great never looked at the original Honda insight. My worst consumption on the started at 62mpg. But that was a 2 seated with AL body, that would not hold my magnetically mount RF antenna and all the other antennas that add so much additional drag :)

    Chevy volt looks promising, but not until they come out with the second generation
     
  18. caffeinekid

    caffeinekid Duct Tape Extraordinaire

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2010
    334
    44
    2
    Location:
    Houston
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well, the tweaking of pots refers to the three located on the DC-DC converter in the Enginer kit, so technically there are indeed no modifications to the Prius needed. However, there are apparently adjustments for ramping up the I boost available at highway/freeway speeds where the kit otherwise offers little or no benefit.

    I agree with you 100%. I have tried just about everything to maintain 100mpg for any kind of distance and it just hasn't been happening even in the best of circumstances. That crazy real world full of stop signs, dumbass driving antics of others, short lights, speed limits higher than 30mph, etc.. I keep the tires inflated to 40-42psi, start off with topped-off traction battery, drive relatively flat terrain, accelerate slowly, hold my lucky penny...everything. Maybe its the type of music I listen to? The best I have seen upon pulling in to the fuel pump to fill up was 56mpg on the MFD. The actual calculations on my XL spreadsheet have me at AVG = 50mpg over the 6 tanks since I installed it. That's up from a calculated 46mpg without it.
     
  19. Flaninacupboard

    Flaninacupboard Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    1,297
    213
    0
    Location:
    Midlands - UK
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    caffeine, share the .xls file from the monitor (if you have it) and we can see what sort of power your kit is outputting.
     
  20. cproaudio

    cproaudio Speedlock Overrider

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2010
    2,401
    758
    0
    Location:
    CA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I changed my driving style to maximize EV/stealth mode. The Enginer kit worked well for me because my trips are at least 5 miles. Most of the time is 7 to 15 miles one way. I have since grill blocked with 50% top, 100% bottom. This helped a lot too. The outside temp here range from 40F to 65F. Since I pulled my kit out, my avg speed has gone up from 20mph to 23mph. I do admit that I drive a little faster after I pull the kit out. The best mileage I got after pulling out the kit was 63mpg for a 43 mile day otherwise is 57mpg. When I had my kit installed, I always try to stay at 42mph stealth. The Enginer kit was able to keep up at this speed for 2 miles at 6 bars. I ran out of uncongested road due to red light. I try to take routes with long stop lights in between and try to time the stop lights to green lights as much as possible. I drive using as least amount of braking as possible so a lot of coasting. My new converter is on the way. It's funny that the converter is Berkley CA. I think it's 3prongpower. I think the old converter fried because during the last 7 miles of its life was driven in EV/stealth mode. I accelerated from red light to 43mph numerous times (rush hour traffic) and it just couldn't handle it. Once I get the new converter, I'll drive in blend mode and will report back.