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New Optima 12V Battery - Necessary to Charge First?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Kizzy, Sep 4, 2017.

  1. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    I'm about to replace the original 12V battery on my 2008 Prius. I've purchased an Optima Yellow Top DS46B24R and am hoping to get this done in the next day or two.

    My question is in relation to the initial resting voltage on the battery, prior to installation. The voltage on the Optima as it sits on my garage workbench is presently 12.6V (tested with my Fluke MM). I've read posts here where it is recommended to charge these batteries to full before installing them. My understanding (and this could be wrong) is that a fully charged battery of this type should read around 12.9V or 13.0V at rest. If true, that would indicate that my battery is not presently charged to full.

    So I guess my main question is - how important is it that this be done? From posts that I've read here, 12.6V is still adequate (even "normal") voltage to power up the car, and if the Prius works as designed, the battery will be charged to full as I drive it over time.

    To put this another way, in the real world, is 12.6V sufficient for me to install the battery as it is? I'd honestly prefer to avoid the hassle of charging it, but if necessary I will have to go out and purchase a float charger. I've seen that Harbor Freight sells one for about $10 that looks like it would do the job. If I were to go this route, what voltage would have to be applied to the battery to charge it? And at what amperage that is safe for the battery? Would I be looking for something like a 13.8V, 2A max charger?

    -Kizzy
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, you can install it. some good long daily drives will help to charge it up. otherwise, a charge is recommended.
    check the voltage revery morning before starting until you are comfortable. it would be good to get it up to 12.9 or more.
     
  3. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    I should also mention that my Optima battery has a mfg. sticker on the side showing a date of 8/17. So it is new within the last month or so. I got it at my local Pep Boys, who are running a $55.50 off promotion right now on this battery. Drops the regular price of $184.99 down to $129.49. After adding CA sales tax and core charge it was $159.86 out the door, but I'll get $15 of that back when I return my old battery. So $144.86 final cost.
     
    #3 Kizzy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
    bisco and iplug like this.
  4. 05PreeUs

    05PreeUs Senior Member

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    That is a VERY good price on a 12v battery for a Prius!
     
  5. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Yes I was glad to see that promotion. Cheapest by far I've seen, including Amazon and other online e-tailers.
     
  6. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Great price. Just setup an appointment to replace my 2012 plug-in Prius battery tomorrow. $140.53 after free installation, old battery return, and California tax. They claim to use a "memory saver device to maintain settings of car radio, clock, seats and other components". Another plus.

    My battery would probably make it another year, but for this price, peace of mind, and not chancing the unexpected dead battery when I need to get to or home from work this winter, there is no time like the present.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm surprised pep boys didn't put a charge on it for you.
     
  8. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    I wasn't going to comment on this but then I thought:
    What if it turned out to be impossible to bring the resting volatage above 12.6 and have it stay there ??

    I think that every new battery should be put on a tender type smart charger until the "green light" comes on, then disconnected and left to sit 12 hours and THEN measure the voltage before installing it.

    I also think that anybody who would consider installing his own battery should have a small automatic charger.
    You don't get to pick the voltage, just the current capacity.
    The ones from Harbor Freight are junk.
    You can get a decent one for around $20.
     
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  9. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Can you explain why you think this would happen? Doesn't the Prius charge the 12V battery while in the Ready Mode? I've read dozens of posts claiming that, over time, the Prius has a system for charging the 12V battery while driving, or idling in Ready.

    Fair enough. Can you recommend one to me in that price range?

    -Kizzy
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it does, but extremely slowly. it pretty much just maintains it, unless you do a lot of driving.
     
  11. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Assuming, for a moment, for the sake of argument, that it merely maintains the battery at 12.6V, why is that necessarily a bad thing? So long as it is sufficient to operate the car, why is that extra 0.3V so important? Not trying to be contrarian, just trying to understand the importance of it.

    My 2008, which I purchased in December 2007, has been running fine on its original 12V battery for nearly 10 years. This weekend was the very first time in those 10 years that I ever had to do a jump start, or noticed anything at all wrong with the car or its accessories. I know for a fact that it hasn't been at 12.9V all this time, and it has lasted far past the bell curve. So, what are the benefits, and the evidence of those benefits, of keeping the battery charged at 12.9V?

    Also, couldn't I just leave the car in Ready mode overnight, with the car in Park and the parking brake engaged? Would not this achieve the same thing as topping off the charge on an external charger?

    -Kizzy
     
    #11 Kizzy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  12. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Following up on my earlier post. Thought I'd do a little research into low-cost battery chargers/maintainers. The Pep Boys near me has these two in stock. Both are about 30% off with Promotion Code. Would either or both of these be suitable for charging the Optima before installing it?

    Black & Decker 6V and 12V Battery Charger & Maintainer
    Black & Decker 6V and 12V Battery Charger and Maintainer | 664372 | Pep Boys

    Schumacher Speedcharge Charger/Maintainer 6V/12V 1.5Amp
    Schumacher SpeedCharge Charger/Maintainer, 6/12V, 1.5 Amp | 50274 | Pep Boys

    -Kizzy
     
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  13. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    I'm sorry that my wording was confusing.
    I meant to say: What if charging the battery, by any means, turns out to be ineffective........thereby indicating that the new battery is, in fact, defective ?? That has nothing to do with the application it is about to be installed in.

    You can get good battery charger/maintainers a lot of places. Any Auto Parts Store. Any big box retailer, including Schumacher at WalMart and well known brands at places like Lowes and Home Depot.

    A "google search" for "automotive battery maintainer" should bring up a lot of possibilities.
    Note that "Battery Tender" is a registered trademark. They make good stuff.

    Edit: yes both of those chargers should be good for your needs.

    And for your "12.6" question: A "healthy" battery has certain electrical and chemical characteristics. The exact type dictates what those characteristics ARE.
    If the one you have in hand does NOT come up to the standard specs for that type, then it is not right.......and likely will fail early.

    A conventional wet-cell battery has a nominal resting voltage of 12.6-12.7.
    An AGM type typically is 12.9-13.0.
    That extra .3 volts CAN be important in assessing the quality and health.
    It may not be important in actual operation depending on WHY it doesn't come up to spec. and what the application is.
     
    #13 Sam Spade, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  14. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Thanks, I see now what you meant. As for the two chargers, that Schumacher model will actually not work as a CHARGER for the YellowTop, only as a maintainer. It is only designed to charge smaller batteries, like the kinds used in motorcycles. It says so in the manual. The Black & Decker apparently will work. Still not really convinced I need to do this. I can see how it would be preferable however.
     
    #14 Kizzy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  15. Sam Spade

    Sam Spade Senior Member

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    It won't maintain if it can't charge.
    You are mis-interpreting what it is trying to tell you.

    NO 2 amp or below charger is really appropriate for charging a completely dead "big" battery.
    But ANY of them will be just fine if the starting voltage is not below 12.0 or so. It just takes a long time.

    The Schumacher would be just fine. I've had one for years. Everything from a lawn mower to a diesel truck........but only for storage maintenance and if the battery is a bit low.

    No 12 V battery for use in a Prius really qualifies as a "big" battery. :)
     
  16. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    I respect your opinion, but am going to have to politely disagree. The manual for that specific model charger plainly states that it is not to be used to charge a battery the size of the Optima YellowTop, based on its CCA rating of 450. I'm not home now so I can't post direct quotes from it, but if you download a copy you will see what I mean. It is only designed to maintain a battery that is already charged to full, unless it's a very small motorcycle battery or similar type. Otherwise, you risk undercharging it (as it has a 12-hour cutoff), which can apparently diminish its capacity. There are, however, slightly larger and more expensive Schumacher chargers that will work for both charging and maintaining this battery.
     
    #16 Kizzy, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not a black and decker fan, have you looked on line?
     
  18. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    This type of battery is an AGM, and a brand new and healthy AGM should be able to be charged to 13.2 V and be able to hold that charge over several days, without self discharging below that. Bear in mind that when the charge cycle finishes, it will be significantly higher than that until the surface charge bleeds off, given that to raise the battery to that 13.2 V level a higher voltage is used when charging (up to 14.7 V for a AGM). It concerns me that your recently manufactured battery of only a few weeks is only 12.6. My new one was at 13.2 V when it was delivered to me.
    While it may be "adequate", it represents something like half full, (or half empty, if you swing the way), so, to add to what Sam Spade is try to get across to you (good advice above), is that if you cannot raise the voltage to 13.2 V (fully charged) and for that voltage to hold over time, you may have a defective battery. You may be happy with that, but I wouldn't.
    Again, as bisco has said, it take several hours, something like maybe 5 hours of continuous driving (or just sitting on your driveway in READY) to charge a half empty to full in the car. Again, if the car is not driven regularly, then it is a good idea to have an outboard charger to maintain the battery to ensure it stays full. A sure way to damage a lead/acid battery is to leave it in any state of discharge for any period of time.

    Hope that helps to give you some perspective of from where we're coming
     
    #19 dolj, Sep 4, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
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  20. Kizzy

    Kizzy Member

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    Thanks for your response. I do see where you are coming from, and I'm re-thinking this. I'll look into getting a charger to test the battery's ability to reach and maintain the 13.2V range before installing it.
     
    #20 Kizzy, Sep 5, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017