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New Toyota TS040 Racing Hybrid

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by El Dobro, Mar 27, 2014.

  1. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    All ready for the 2014 WEC series. This year, besides racing against the Audi hybrids, Porsche has added a hybrid to the mix.

     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    What is the schedule for races this year?

    The reason I ask is sometimes I have to work weekends. Knowing the schedule, I'll put in some Outlook announcements and the problem is solved.

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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  4. mrbigh

    mrbigh Prius Absolutum Dominium

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    Cooool ......
     
  5. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I think you would make it bigger than that, as long as the weight is low enough, to account for different tracks. I don't know. It is interesting that porsche is going for the 8MJ (2.22 kwh) per lap in a lithium battery with a 2L turbo V4, audi 2MJ perlap in fly wheel with a 4L turbo diesel 6, and toyota 6MJ in a super cap with a 3.7 V8. All are in a hybrid electronic awd configuration.

    Toyota's New Hybrid Racer Is a 1,000 Horsepower Beast | Autopia | Wired.com
    .
    On paper I would pick the toyota configuration to win races. These new rules seem to hurt diesel a little more. Diesel still has advantages, though IMHO not as much as more electric boost. Porsche is making there car the most like a car they could sell outside of racing. Even though I think the toyota team has picked better technology (much better ballance than last year with the new rules) there is a lot of race experience with the porsche and audi teams.

    I'll be there for the race at COTA in September.
     
  6. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Diesel has only around 5% penalty in fuel consumption (146 MJ vs 140 MJ in fuel energy). In real life diesel engine probably has more advantage than that, maybe that is why they are sticking only in 2 MJ class or their flywheel system just can not be scaled up that easily.

    First test session is over and here are the best lap times, Toyota is not at the top :( :
    Timing Results Intranet
     
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  7. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    I think its the toyota team, not the diesel superiority. Porsche running gasoline and a larger energy recovery system won at least the first test. Audi tested a bigger ERS (Energy Recovery System) using exhaust energy along with the braking energy, and decided that they would rather be allowed to use more fuel per lap. With the diesel pulling better at lower rpm, some of the benefits of larger ERS are lost.

    IMHO the larger ERS + gasoline should be technically superior to diesel when given the new fuel rules. Audi does have the most recent race experience though, so they may be able to execute better in races.

    Then it comes down to battery versus super cap, and the super cap allows the driver to deliver more power, but total energy is restricted. Super cap should be superior in a race other than cost, but porsche chose a battery, because that is what they use in production cars. Porsche is taking the small disadvantage in racing to help them make their production hybrids better.

    When it comes to engine layout toyota chose a 3.7 L normally asperiated V8 versus porsches turbo charged 2L V4. In racing the toyota choice has historically had a large advantage. Indeed porsche initially had trouble.
    Porsche 919 | Racecar Engineering

    Porsche has excellent engineers, and racing will tell if the v4 can stand up to the hazzards of racing. The porsche engine will be kept around 9000 rpm, which is tough for 24hours. I think porsche can pull it off, but there is a technical advantage to toyota's ice choice. I don't think either are optimal.

    Porsche is able to recover energy from the exhaust (generator is on the turbo), hence the 8 MJ system versus toyota's 6MJ system. I am guessing toyota thought they would only recover 6MJ on braking. If toyota had made say 3L turbo they could have recovered energy from the exhaust and still had lower rpm less vibration than the porsche engine. Toyota may just feel better normally aspirated, and the ERS-K (kinnetic from braking) is closer to their production hybrid system.
     
  8. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Porsche is now competing in 6 MJ class
     
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  9. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    A little more details on the tech and regulation side of WEC. Every car is equipped with fuel flow, torque and bunch of other sensors. The numbers are then calculated and actual BSFC numbers (kept secret) tells them who has advantage. They then took the average gasoline and average diesel values and came with the fuel technology factor (FTF), then they evaluate the actual Kers Tehnology Factor (KTF). Both these values were evaluated in testing at Paul Ricard. And they come with the FTF at 1.074, so a diesel engine only 7.4% more efficient (well not necessarily true). The teams can not cheat as a deviation of only 2% from the values on the test vs the values in the race will result in certain penalty.

    And based on this thread the final numbers of the fuel energy allowed per lap of LeMans look something like this:
    - LMP1-L (no ERS), petrol: 157.2 MJ/lap (Rebellion Racing / Lotus)
    - LMP1-L (no ERS), diesel: 146.4 MJ/lap
    - LMP1-H (2 MJ/lap ERS), petrol: 147.0 MJ/lap
    - LMP1-H (2 MJ/lap ERS), diesel: 138.7 MJ/lap (Audi)
    - LMP1-H (6 MJ/lap ERS), petrol: 139.5 MJ/lap (Porsche / Toyota)
    - LMP1-H (6 MJ/lap ERS), diesel: 131.7 MJ/lap

    By this definition all top three competitors will have a very comparable energy from fuel, Audi will rely more on the efficient engine, Porsche and Toyota will rely more on the bigger ERS systems.

    This will be very interesting.
     
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  10. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Just a reminder, the race will start 7am EST on the 20th..
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I'm sure Nissan is glad to see their Johnny Come Lately competition finally getting board w/ hybrid racing:

    DailyTech - Nissan Coaxes 400hp from 88-pound, 3-cylinder Turbo Engine for Hybrid Racecar


    [​IMG]

    Nissan Working on Hybrid Race Car

    Kind of reminds me of the PiP ... right when they finally get shamed into building (limited) PiP production cars (only after denying practicability - in the midst of home brew DIY's showing otherwise) for the U.S. - Chevy drops the much longer EV range hybrid Volt on them. Hey! ... maybe Toyota was hoping to hold off hybrid race cars because they thought they can get a hydrogen racer on the track ... and force the public into paying for refueling tech ! Not that I'm bitter ...
    :p
    .
     
  12. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Hopefully, the Nissan won't get in the way of the other cars again. :p
     
  13. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    It's about a hour in and the two Toyotas are in the lead, due to the bad weather in Silverstone.
     
  14. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    At the halfway point, the Toyotas are still 1st and 2nd.
     
  15. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    The race was called with 18min left due to rain. Toyota won 1st and 2nd, one Porsche hybrid finished and Audi was a DNF due to crashes.
     
  16. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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  17. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    On to Spa on May 3rd.
     
  18. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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  19. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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  20. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    And I'm sure the Audi camp is none too happy about it. :D

    On to Le Mans!