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Newb with a 2003

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by FireFighterHill, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. FireFighterHill

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    Thanks for the info Brad. I plan to do everything you listed. I'm also building a load tester, using an H4 pigtail and bulb so I can put a load on the individual modules to make sure they are good. Tonight I picked up the stuff I need to convert the 12v battery terminals to accept a more conventional battery. I have the original 12v battery up to 9.4 volts but its slow going cause all I have is a 1.5amp smart charger. I'm pretty certain its no good but I am hoping to squeeze a few weeks out of it so I have time to find an affordable alternative.

    The guy selling me the gen one pack has a ton of Prius parts. mostly gen 2 and 3 stuff. He's a mechanic and doesn't need the gen one pack anymore. He assured me every module is at least 7.4 and said I could remove the cover and test them if I want before buying it. I'm hoping he may make me a deal on gen 2 or 3 modules in the future to rebuild my extra traction battery. I have that charger saved to my wish list on ebay and will be ordering it as soon as I have the funds.
     
  2. FireFighterHill

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    Has anyone ever seen an entirely shorted out traction battery. The known bad cell from the car, every single module except one has either 0.0 or 0.1 volts. One single module, has 5.4 volts. Also when I tested the 12v battery when I took it out of the car, it read 0.1 volts as well. This leads me to believe that something has shorted out and drained both traction and 12 volt battery.

    I picked up the used traction battery from a wrecked car today. 29 modules are 7.4-7.8 volts. two are 6.4 volts and 5 are 0.1-1.6 volts.
    Ordered the Reaktor charger and power supply. Looks like im gonna be in the market for 7 good gen 1 modules.
     
  3. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Do you know how to tell if a battery salesman is lying? His lips are moving. :ROFLMAO:

    How long has that battery sat for? You have already weeded out 9 modules (check your math), and your entire pack with a self discharge test.

    This is now normal for Gen I batteries that have sat unused for about a year. That pack is non recoverable junk.

    Nope. Worn out crap Gen I modules just self discharge all on their own. The same for old 12 volt lead acid. The car is most likely ok.

    This is what I recommend you do to test your 29 "good " modules.

    1. Deep discharge each module to 2 to 4 volts. Use lights bulbs, resistors or the Reaktor. Under six volts the discharge rate should be less than 200 mA.

    2. Recharge at 1 amp for three hours. Do not let the modules sit in a state of deep discharge for more than a few hours. That can be hard on them. Ignore anything you have read about 7250 or 7500 mAh recharges. These are Gen I modules and the 3000 mAh charge is going to be more than they can hold. Your Reaktor should be able to charge three in series at one time.

    3. Let them rest for 24 hours after charging. Use the Reaktor to do a 20 amp discharge to 6 volts and record that capacity. After each discharge, recharge each module at 20 amps for 1000 mAh. Again, do not let them sit empty. To discharge at a 20 amp rate the Reaktor needs to be power by a good battery. The high power discharge is recycled back in to the supply battery.

    I have a few 3000 mAh modules and some 1700 mAh modules. They do not play well together. Once you get yours tested we can talk.

    Brad
     
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  4. FireFighterHill

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    Thanks again for the umptenth time Strawbrad. Your post have been invaluable! Im slowly assembling the tools and knowledge to tackle this challenge.
     
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  5. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    It seems like you are starting to understand the uphill battle fixing a Gen I battery is. Hopefully the core you bought will prove to have some usable capacity. If it does it will be what saved your car.

    Brad
     
  6. FireFighterHill

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    The guy that sold it to me was nice, once we found the bad cells he gave me 10% off his asking price and told me if it turns out I cant use it or something else major is wrong with the car and I dont want it, I could bring it back for a refund. He also gave me some contacts of some local parts recyclers who have prius stuff. I doubt I'll return it. If 29 cells out of it are good and I can sell them for the going rate id be able to recoup all my money just from that pack!
     
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  7. DRACO

    DRACO Member

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    That is awesome news!

    Break a Leg brother, we are here to help :D
     
  8. FireFighterHill

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    Thanks for the support!

    I'm working on cleaning up the bad traction battery. Using it to as my guinea pig. I made up a solution of Vinegar and table salt and soaked the bus bars and nuts in it to clean the corrosion. It works exceptionally well. Just gotta be sure I've flushed all the acid before I put it back together. I washed them with fresh water for several minutes. Going to let them dry overnight and flush them with water again tomorrow to be sure. When I put the traction battery back together I will be using dielectric grease on all connections. I'm going to mix up the same solution tomorrow in some small plastic sandwich bags and zip tie it around corroded wire connectors.

    I'm gonna try to clean up the modules tomorrow, clean the corrosion from the case, give it a coat of spray paint. Anyone recommend a particular type of spray paint that would hold up well in this particular circumstance?

    Still looking for an quick and easy way to remove all the damn sealant that's all over everything. Thinking about running all the plastic parts through the dishwasher with the drying cycle turned off.
     
  9. FireFighterHill

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    I should be sleeping. I just went and checked my dead 12v OEM battery. Ive managed to revive it from 0.1 volts to 9.7 volts. Its been sitting at 9.7 volts for almost 24 hours. Well since the battery is toast anyway, wheres the harm in adding some distilled water to it. So I peeled off the label, popped of the clear plastic cover, and removed the six rubber caps. I probably added 2-3 ounces to each cell just to get it level with the top of the AGM's. Put it all back together. Now I've put it back on the 1.5amp 12volt charger and will check in about 6 hours when I wake up to go to the airport.

    By the way, not sure if this means anything, but the cells were under vacuum. I could definitely hear it suck in air when I pulled off the caps.
     
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  10. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Baking Soda will neutralize the salt and vinegar.

    Toyota puts the batteries together dry. I have opened batteries that have dielectric grease on them. They are a mess. The grease captures bits of dust being blown through the battery for cooling. Dielectric grease is non conductive. Dirty grease can be conductive. A good electrical connection is air tight. This is achieved by tightening the nuts to 48 inch lbs. The small shiny bits on the backside of the bus bars is where the power is moving through.

    Someone else posted that acetone will dissolve the sealant. Finger nail polish remover is acetone.

    QUOTE="FireFighterHill, post: 2362617, member: 145410"]Thinking about running all the plastic parts through the dishwasher with the drying cycle turned off.[/QUOTE]

    I have hand washed modules in a utility sink. Let them sit in the sun to dry. They are nicer to work with clean. Gen I modules have a tendency to leak. Washing can eliminate voltage to ground leaks.
     
  11. FireFighterHill

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    I'll try acetone, thanks for the tip.

    Well I checked on the 12v battery before I left for the airport, it was up to 10.7 volts. Just got back from the airport and its up to 11.4 volts. So I checked the water levels again. 3 cells were low again so I topped them off with 1/2 an ounce each to bring the level back to just barely over top of the AGM's. Once its up over 12 volts ill take it across the street to Autozone and have them load test it. I doubt it will pass, but i'm curious.

    So dielectric grease is a no go, what about the spray on stuff?
     
  12. FireFighterHill

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    Found a used optima yellow top DS46B24R for only $40.00 dollars on craigslist. Charged and tested. Problem is its 100 miles away, 200 miles round trip. I wonder if its worth the trip and risk to save about 100 bucks.
     
  13. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    What's 4-5 hours of your time and 4-5 gallons of gas worth? More or less that $100. Offer a lower price due to the distance you'd have to travel and maybe the seller will take the offer.
     
  14. FireFighterHill

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    He wanted 50 but knocked off 10 bucks because of the distance. Im driving a 2011 chevy cruze 1.8L now. I get about 32mpg with it so more like 7-8 gallons of gas and 4 hours rounds trip.
     
  15. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    Personally, I'd skip it and go for a new battery. I wouldn't have to worry that the $40 bucks was wasted while I was buying its replacement. But, that's just me talking. Your situation may differ.
     
  16. FireFighterHill

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    Im going to pass on it. Mainly because of the drive, not the price.
     
  17. DonDNH

    DonDNH Senior Member

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    Good choice.
     
  18. FireFighterHill

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    I have good news and bad news. Good news, the car starts, runs, goes into gear! I didn't move it more then a few inchs back and forth because I didn't have the traction battery bolted down or the cover on it. Also I had another car jumper cabled to the 12 volt battery just to be sure it wouldn't cause any issues. Bad news I blew up one of the dead modules in the traction battery that I bought. It popped and is now swollen. The only code i'm getting is P3030. The battery harness is in bad shape so im going to replace it from the other battery pack after cleaning and ohm'ing it out.

    Everything else seems to be working on the car, radio, lights, windshield wipers, The A/C kicks on but doesnt get cold. Figure I'll throw in a can of R134a and see if it gets cold and stays cold.

    After I get the traction pack good ill work on doing all the maintenance. Oil change, Air filter, spark plugs, transmission fluid change, radiator flush, brake fluid flush.

    I figure once I get it on the road, running good ill start working on making it look alittle nicer. Shampoo the interior, restore the headlights, get some oem hub caps or maybe find some oem alloy wheels. I think the paint is to far gone to bring back. Most of the clear coat is gone and very faded.
     
    #58 FireFighterHill, Jun 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2016
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  19. FireFighterHill

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    If the car is throwing the code P3030 will it still charge the traction battery? I was trying to get to the screen where it shows me the battery level and it wouldnt go there, just told there is a problem with the battery.
     
  20. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Charging creates a small amount of gas and heats the module ... leading to the top popping.

    CAREFUL! The electrolyte is '6 mol' lithium hydroxide and eats organic material. Gloves, long-slieve shirt, and eye protection are strongly recommended.

    Bob Wilson