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Newb with a 2003

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by FireFighterHill, Jun 4, 2016.

  1. DRACO

    DRACO Member

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    ah poop.
     
  2. FireFighterHill

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    Finished painting the traction battery case and started reassembly with the good modules. I matched them up by voltage and put them back in the case. Getting the screws to line up on the bottom is a PITA.

    I will match them up by voltage and capacity once I get my chargers in. Of the 29 good ones. they are all within 0.1 volt of each other either 7.8 or 7.7 volts. That's with no charging by me.

    For shits and giggles ive started putting a charge to the dead modules. Ive found 2 so far that seem to be holding a charge of 7.8 volts for going on 24 hours. I know this doesn't tell the whole story, and they are still most likely no good, but it gives me some hope. If these 2 are in fact usable, that means I only need to find 3 more good modules to have enough to fix the traction pack.

    I also ordered thirty 19 inch leads with alligator clips so I can easily put modules in either parallel or series for charging and balancing.

    Let me see if you guys think this is a good plan of attack. Use the three R/C charger balancer dischargers for the 29 modules that have been holding steady above 7.7 volts. Use my two automotive smart chargers to charge the dead modules in pairs up till they go into storage mode. If the dead ones hold a steady charge of at least 6.5 volts for at least 24 hours put them on the RC charges and run them through charge/discharge cycles.
     
  3. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    I do not recommend swelling modules, but it really does not do much harm to them. Was this a under or over 7.2 volt module? When over charged the cells produce oxygen gas. That happens at about 1.45 volts per cell. It is the gas pressure that swells the module case. The cell plates do not deform. A 6.XX volt module will have five good cells and one dud with close to zero capacity. When charged the dud cell will start producing oxygen while the other cells are accepting charge.

    How much charge did you put in this module before it started to swell? It's capacity is below that amount.

    The Reaktor will discharge about thirty times faster than the other two charges. The Imax and the other charger would work for charging the modules.

    Try until you are convinced they are hopeless. Keep a protected eye on them while charging. They are going to swell, heat, vent and maybe even blow their tops off. Limit the charge put in. 3000 mAh is more than they will hold.

    Brad
     
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  4. FireFighterHill

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    The hobby king charger I ordered discharges at up to 3amps.
     
  5. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    This charger?
    X120 120W Touch Screen Smart 6S Balance Charger

    That charger is limited to 3 amps and 10W on discharge. 10 watts / 7 volts = 1.42 amps.

    Operating Voltage Range: 10.0~28.0V
    Circuit Power: Max 120W (charging) and Max 10W (discharging)
    Charge Current Range: 0.1~10A
    Discharge Current Range: 0.1~3A

    Brad
     
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  6. FireFighterHill

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    Well ive got 3 modules hooked up to the charger. Wow it takes all day just to do 3! Whats the max voltage I should charge each module to?
    Ive been messing with the old dead pack while letting the good modules charge/ discharge/ balance. Ive been using a 12volt car battery and then hooking up 2 modules in series and connecting them to the battery to get the charger to kick on. im doing 12 modules at a time all in pairs, charging them up to about 6.8 per module. Once they get a charge in them im using a 6 volt charger and connecting them in parallel and charging them up to 7.8 volts. I will let them rest and check on them. Ive almost got everything I need to build my closed circuit tester.
     
  7. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    You have lost me. What charger? What rate are you charging at? Are you discharging also? How many mAh are you putting in the modules? At a 500 mA rate modules will reach 8.7 to 8.9 volts. It's way more important to count mAh than to watch the voltage. When the modules are fully charged the excess input will turn into heat.

    What is this? Do you have your Reaktor? It's really hard to come up with a better tester than a Reaktor.

    Brad
     
  8. FireFighterHill

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    I'm using the reaktor. I have cut off set at 3000mah and I've been charging at 1amp. 3 cycles, discharge down to 12v and recharge to about 26v with 15 minutes wait between cycles. 2 of the packs have swelled slightly but have gone back down after sitting. Things have sped up, I think the first ones I tried took so long because they couldn't get up to the 3000mah capacity I set. Most they ever reached was a few hundred.

    Nexus 6 ?
     
  9. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    How fast are you discharging? Doing three in series to 12 volts could be hard on the weaker modules. The three modules could be at 6,6, and zero volts at the end of the discharge. How much are you getting back out on discharge? Again, charge slowly until full. That will be some minor swelling and heat. Let them sit for a day. Discharge one module at a time from full to 6 volts at 20 amps.
     
  10. FireFighterHill

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    I'm discharging them at the 20amp maximum. What's the max mah these modules hold normally? Some have no problem getting to 3000mah and actually do it rather quickly. I've been testing the modules as they charge discharge in the sets of 3. So far only one has become unbalanced with the other two. It was one I had already suspected as bad. When I get home from running errands im going to put the two from the set that remained balanced together and put them through some more cycles.

    The touch screen charger came today, super easy to setup. I have it working on cycling a module that I got at 0.0 volts but has been maintaining 7.0 volts for several days.

    Nexus 6 ?
     
  11. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    Every time I think you are catching on you go off on a tangent. What you are doing to those modules is abusive. Can you see the difference between what you are doing and what I recommended?


     
  12. FireFighterHill

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    Can you program the Reaktor with 2 different discharge rates for the same cycle? So that once it reaches 6 volts it drops to a 200 mah discharge till it reaches 4 volts? I've reread what you posted. I think I understand it better now. My biggest issue right now is TIME. I really need to get the pack back in the car asap. I can do a more complete reconditioning of the modules at a later date. I just want to be relatively sure the pack isn't going to blow any modules, leave me stranded, or do any damage to the good modules.
     
  13. FireFighterHill

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    Thought I should give an update. Got 4 new modules to replace the bad ones. Charged all the modules up to within 0.2 volts of each other. All held at least 5000mah capacity. Put the traction pack all back together and put it back in the car. Car started up with no problem and no check engine light. According to the dash it was half full. Well I drove it around and got it up to full and then parked it and turned it off to put the interior all back in. Well heres the weird part. After I put the interior back in and took it for a spin it now showed the traction battery with 1 bar and the turtle light came on. Not sure why the light is on and how it lost 3/4 of the charge. I tried to see if resetting the car would change anything by disconnecting the 12v battery and pulling the link to the traction battery. That didn't do anything. It still drives fine and no CEL's or codes. I read it can come on when the battery gets hot. Well it was about 98 degrees out and I was driving it slow to charge it. I felt the air coming from the battery and it was quite hot. What else can I check? Is this possibly normal with a freshly rebuilt/reconditioned traction battery?
     
  14. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Charging the traction battery is exothermic, it generates heat. Heat is the enemy.

    Bob Wilson
     
  15. FireFighterHill

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    Yeah, I know that. I'm hoping it was heat and once I drive it on the highway the problem will take care of its self. It has no trouble reaching 55mph, even with the turtle light on. I'm just wondering if there is anything I can check to confirm this. Also wondering how it went from full to 1 bar while i was putting the interior back in. Before I put the interior in I pulled the traction battery safety link and then I had to pull the two main wires to reinstall the brace. Otherwise I didn't do anything else to the battery pack. I had already bolted it to the floor. After the turtle light came on I was only able to get it up to half a charge. I stopped trying because I didn't wanna damage anything from over heating it.
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Time to use the miniVCI to read out the 19 pairs. Also the temperature probes.

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. FireFighterHill

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    I have the blue tooth OBDII reader. Just ordered the mini VCI.
     
  18. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    How did you measure this capacity?

    I really doubt you have a packs worth of Gen I modules with 5000 mAh capacity. If you do you have hit the battery lottery jackpot. It's the discharge that counts. The charge amount is not a measure of capacity. Excess charge just turns into heat and gas.

    I just finished reconditioning my Gen I pack. It is a cold climate car with 178K and it's original battery. I performed a slow deep discharge and a 4500 mAh (9 hours X 500 mA) charge. After a days rest the capacities were measured at a 20 amp discharge rate to 6 volts. The capacity range was 2050 to 2588 mAh. That is really really good for an original Gen I battery. It's also very close to the bottom edge of what will still work. The car was running fine when I pulled the battery. This was preventative maintenance.

    The first four digits of the modules serial number is a date code. 1&2 are day of the month. 3rd is the month, X,Y,Z are Oct, Nov, Dec. The 4th is the year. 2001=C, 2002=D, 2003=E and so on. Being in Fl where batteries die young it's possible you have newer modules from a replacement pack.

    That is actually a wide spread.

    It can take time for the error codes to pop up.

    You may have seen the only Prius turtle light ever in FL. Normally the turtle lights up at about -20 degrees f. The cars are then very slow until the battery has a chance to warm up. Turtle mode limits the power in and out of the battery for protection.

    Could you hear the battery fan running? That is a sign of an overheating battery.

    Is that the Torque app for Andriod phones? It will read module voltages and temps.

    Brad
     
  19. FireFighterHill

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    According to the Reaktor and B6 everything had at or over 5000mah by the time they were done cycling. The fan was running yes, the blower fan thats on the drivers side and duct'd to the traction battery. Is there another fan?

    From what I could find online, there is 3 reasons that can trigger the turtle light. To cold, To hot, or depleted. Also I read something that a bad 12v battery might cause it, but I couldn't find confirmation of that? I know the 12v battery I have isnt the best. It holds 12.9 volts no problem but it only has about half its original capacity.
     
  20. FireFighterHill

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    Got the Prius home. Drove it about 80 miles. It had no problem maintaining 70 mph on the freeway. According to the computer I averaged about 36mpg. It threw a few codes on the way home. P3006 and P3026. Which block of batterys is block 16? Is it the 16th pair starting from the battery control unit side? I cleared them and the only one that came back was P3006. The turtle light went out on its own but came back. On the way home it never went above 2 bars but also never went below one bar.

    I'm going to have to take the battery out again to be sure what the problem is. I think its the battery voltage sensing harness. It was pretty bad shape after I cleaned all the corrosion. Some of the terminals were extremely thin and even had small pin holes in them. I ordered copper tinned ring terminal 22 gauge 1/4 stud and im going to crimp and solder them to the wire ends. Once I get the pack back out ill check to see if anymore modules show themselves to be bad.

    When I first started driving the brakes felt spongy. I wasnt worried till the ABS BRAKE light came on. I pulled over and pumped them hard over and over and all the sudden I heard a long beep and then the light went off and the brakes felt solid.

    I ordered everything I need to change the filters(Oil, Intake, & cabin), spark plugs(NGK Iridium), brake pads (Once I pull the tires I'll know if I need new rotor, drums, etc), pcv valve, and headlight bulbs. Going to go to the autoparts store and get Toyota approved transmission fluid, Radiator and Inverter coolant fluid.

    Going to try a few home remedy's to clean up the yellowing of the head light lenses. If they don't work I guess i'll be looking for replacement headlight housings.