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News from The Steve's address at MacWorld

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by bookrats, Jan 10, 2006.

  1. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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    Virtual PC for Mac will need to be rewritten to support the new architecture, but there is no indication whether Microsoft will do this for the new Intel Mac architecture yet...

    But concievably, Windows should run with close to full performance in a virtual PC or vmware type environment on the mac since no actual instruction level emulation is required.

    There are some open source solutions... Wait to see when we get Wine working on an Intel Mac.
     
  2. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Except the Mac OS can mount a .DMG file directly, as a disk.

    Mac Software companies tend to distribute software as .DMGs.
     
  3. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...NEWS11/60110014

    http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews...al/13592952.htm

    I'll get the MacBook Pro instead, since they're replacing the powerbook with it. I won't have to wait, either, since it's available now! Muuuuuhahahahahahahahahahaha :D
     
  4. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    No, that's a good question. Trick is, you're -- at this moment -- in a "gap" situation -- Intel Macs, but not all of software has caught up to the new processors. So for some questions, there are not yet answers.

    Here is what I know, and what I think I know (I will differentiate):
    • I know: Virtual PC would still be needed (unless... see farther down in the list). Thing to understand is, Virtual PC runs an entire Windows system on the Mac in a single window. So you've got this one Mac Window that has Windows XP running inside it.

      I point that out in regards to your Windows apps, in VirtualPC, running with any Mac apps you have -- or sharing documents between themselves. It's not the same as if you had Windows apps running side-by-side your Mac Apps, each app (Windows or Mac) having their own Window.

      Take a look at the VirtualPC demos over at Microsoft -- see if this model is going to work for you, since it sounds as if you'll be running the 2 Windows apps constantly.
    • I think: The bad news is, I don't think the current Virtual PC will work on the new Intel Macs; VirtualPC emulates an Intel processor in software and, well, it doesn't need to do that anymore on Intel Macs. :)
    • I know: The really good news is, if and when VirtualPC comes out for Intel-based Macs, it's going to run really fast. Like, as fast as a PC.

      In the past, I was leery of suggesting you switch to the Mac, if you were going to be running two Windows apps constantly. VirtualPC runs slow on PowerPC Macs, because it's emulating the Intel processor in software -- and I thought that might make your two Windows apps too slow for constant use.

      (I still think you should play with a Mac for a while -- the UI, while better than Windows (IMO), is not a no-brainer to move to.)
    • I think:Several people have mentioned the possibility of Wine being moved to the Mac. That would be an alternative to VirtualPC -- one where each Windows app app (I think) would run side-by-side the Mac apps.

      However, no idea how close they are to getting Wine to work for a Mac, let alone an Intel-based one; and no idea how solid it would be, reliable, fast, etc.
    Hope that helps! I'm very glad I switched from Windows to the Mac, but (a) I'm an old Unix hack, and so the guts of the Mac are familiar to me, and (B) there was work (and a few sharp pains) involved.
     
  5. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Two corrections:
    1. The new MacBook Pro isn't available until February (but they're taking orders now).
    2. They're still selling the PowerPC-based PowerBooks -- the MacBook Pro isn't replacing it. (Yet.)
     
  6. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    1, I won't need it now but in the next couple of months so it's right on target as far as I'm concerned.
    2, I know that they are but I don't want a new powerbook now that the MacBook is here. :)
     
  7. LaughingMan

    LaughingMan Active Member

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  8. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    I hear you there. (Though they are pricey. But fast!)

    A friend and I discussed over lunch why Apple wasn't talking battery life of the MacBook Pro. We decided that since the new "power-miser" Intel chips wouldn't be out until mid-'06, they decided to make the MacBook Pro the "fast" Intel notebook. (These are dual core Intel chips, after all.)

    The power demand for the MacBook isn't any worse than the PowerMac -- but I don't think it's substantially better. But people's expectations, at this stage of the game, aren't high -- they'll be "blinded" by the speed, and won't be critical of no amazing leaps in power management.

    When the new "power miser" chips come out, they'll come out with a corresponding Intel iBook or PowerMac -- but the emphasis will be on "look at the amazing battery life!" Speed may be more along the lines of 2 times the PowerMacs, instead of 4. It's all a tradeoff. :)

    Question: did the prices on the PowerBooks drop today? I.e., was the low-end model selling for ~$1500 yesterday? Your early adopter fee for the MacBook Pro is about $500.
     
  9. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    My understanding regarding virtual PC is the same as others posting, but for some people the rumored ability to run the 'book as a windows box from a dual-boot config will be an appealing alternative.

    I *really* want to see a wide ranging set of benchmarks. A photoshop comparison is going to be fascinating.
     
  10. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    Apple dropping prices? That's not their style and the powerbook's price hadn't dropped when I looked this afternoon or just now, either, actually. I'm not in that big of a hurry; I'm just hoping to get a new one before my current powerbook decides to fail. <_<
     
  11. GreenMachine

    GreenMachine New Member

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    It has been Apple's history to rush a product to market. Usually they have some problems such as the weak hinge and chipping paint on the TiBook. I have painfully learned to wait for the second generation before buying.
     
  12. jkash

    jkash Member

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    I was hoping for a new Mac Mini. Guess we'll have to wait for that one. The new iMac's speed puts my less than one year old iMac G5 to shame. I do wonder how much of that speed the average user will notice. Safari and Mail open up in one bounce. Will the Internet feel faster? Just curious?
     
  13. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    But who'd want a half-fast computer? ;)
     
  14. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    I would have bet good money that the Mini was going to be the first Mactel -- definitely not the iMac. Shows you how good I am at predicting! :rolleyes:

    I'd bet that Internet access won't seem faster -- I'm finding that the with the speed of modern computers, the bottleneck is my home DSL connection -- not the processor.

    Re: speed, the big question will be: how does running current Mac application software under Rosetta balance with the faster Intel chip?

    What I'd be really interested in seeing a speed comparison of: Microsoft Office (Excel or Word), as it is now, running under Rosetta on an Intel iMac, vs. a Dual G5 PowerMac.
     
  15. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    :D

    It's all a matter of degrees, I guess. The beauty of moving for an old computer: everything seems blazing fast!
     
  16. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    Just finished watching the Key Note. I think I may have to use my daughters discount at Apple soon. Steve promised the whole line will be on Intel processors by the end of the year, so people waiting for the mini should not have to wait long.
     
  17. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    Yeah, my powerbook is about 3.5 years old and it's one of those where the paint chips. The antenna is on the chassis instead of the lid where it was moved to in later models. They made a lot of little improvements to it after I bought mine. :rolleyes: Maybe I'd be better off getting one of the last powerbooks now that they've basically worked out all of the bugs. :)
     
  18. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    Two addendums:
    1. Microsoft has announced that Virtual PC will not run on the Intel-based Macs. They are working towards it, but say it will be a major effort.

      I think this means, "Don't hold your breath".
    2. In the spate of discussions about whether the Intel version of Mac OS X could be run on PCs, someone brought up something I hadn't thought about: can you install Windows on an Intel Mac, and dual-boot it?

      That wouldn't solve the situation Hiyo has -- I don't suppose you want to have to reboot the Mac out of OS X and into Windows to run those 2 programs. However, it might solve problems for folks like me, who occasionally need to run Windows programs that interface with 3rd party hardware.

      We'll see.
     
  19. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

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    I mentioned the possibility. I hope it turns out to be true, since I think it would be a selling point, and actually useful to some people.

    But it is not a foregone conclusion. Amigas and Macs used the same cpu's for years, but I cannot think of a single Amiga program of any size that was ported to Macintosh. The parallel is inexact for a variety of reasons -- just pointing out that it does not take a lot of low level hardware or software differences to prevent windows on MacTel.

    We shall see.
     
  20. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

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    BTW, I know you're on Keynote overload, but I highly recommend reading the Ars Technica summary of the Keynote. Trust me, this is worth it.

    These guys do the best combination of spot-on technical detail and hilarious snark I've ever seen.