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News on battery rubber vent smell

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Battery driven, May 29, 2015.

  1. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Please provide a full list of the problems that your Prius currently has, besides an odor issue. Some owners have reported odor caused by the air conditioning system needing cleaning, so you may want to investigate that and make sure that is not the cause of your car's odor issue.
    2. Remove the little triangle-shaped hatch floor trim to expose the 12V battery.
    3. Make the Prius READY, and measure the voltage across the 12V battery. The voltage should be ~13.8V.
    4. Now make the Prius IG-OFF. Given the smell being as strong as you've described, if you get within a couple feet of the source, your nose should be able to identify the problem. So remove the folding hatch floor and the black plastic tray over the spare tire, and smell around the 12V battery. If you determine that is the problem, then remove the battery and satisfy yourself that is the source. While the battery is removed, make sure there is nothing nasty in the fender well.
    5. If your nose tells you the 12V battery is OK, then remove the orange traction battery interlock switch for safety. This is done by pulling the lever out so the switch can be removed from the battery case.
    6. Then remove the remaining floor trim over the traction battery case, remove the traction battery case cover and smell around the two black vent hoses to see if they are the problem. Even though the safety interlock is removed, you can still get zapped if you contact the battery modules, so keep away from their terminals.
    7. While the traction battery case is open, take a good look at the orange busbars that connect the modules, looking for corrosion. If this is present, the modules involved are leaking electrolyte and you will eventually have a ground fault DTC logged by the traction battery ECU.
    8. After you are done inspecting the traction battery, replace the cover and the floor trim. Install the orange interlock switch. Pivot the lever 90 degrees, then slide the lever down to lock in place.
     
    #41 Patrick Wong, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2015
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  2. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    Patric and others, thank you for being so helpful and sympathetic. Admitting, that we're very stressed and that's why I stayed awake whole night reading the forum. We're receiving more help on this website, than from any mechanic or Toyota dealer. We bought the car privately about two years ago with whole Toyota service history. We were happy with the car most of he time, but unfortunately has given us some problems, costing us money and nerves.

    1. About month or so, after we bought the vehicle we noticed a free play in the steering wheel. Most of the time this occurred immediately after the vehicle pulled out of the driveway or on a flat surface. The problem can be described as loosing the steering for a brief moment.
    I started exploring the internet websites, this forum and various publications regarding ''recall intermediate steering shaft''. Toyota recall checker had no current outstanding faults. Then I contacted previous Toyota dealer to inquire about the car history: they told me that the recall has been already carried out, namely only replacing the bolt and it should not be any problems. Then I call the Toyota Customer Service. They given me the same info as Toyota garage; ''recall was carried out by replacing the bolt ''. The problem has progressed with time and became increasingly noticeable at slow driving and rapid reaction to steering, roundabouts etc. and was intermittent. I noticed the wear outer side front tires. My driving is usual Prius style to gain mpg and regular checks on tire pressure etc... Recently noticed something else: if the vehicle is still in ''off mode'' with turning the steering wheel rapidly left/right, a free play can be felt, like it would jump over a tooth. Occasionally with a click sound. Two mechanics noticed the problem and agreed this is due steering shaft and Toyota should deal with it instead.
    Recently I went to the local Toyota dealer garage, to describe the problems experiencing with steering and odors. They replied that the battery is out of warranty. In addition, they said that our Prius was never entitled for a recall. I asked why so: their reply, it's probably due to the specific models and serial numbers. They weren't sympathetic, helpful or interested in what I have to say. Same day I called Toyota main customer service and also them were adamant about bolt swap and that's it. I was not having it and they shifted me to customer relations. The lady advised to pay up £59 for inspection and with the given reference number I will be entitled for a free replacement in case they find the problem with steering. I made an appointment with a Toyota garage for next week, not local though but 60miles away, because they do not have so many bad reviews. The booking agent wanted to charge me £129 for testing??!!. Once explained what I was advised by CR the cost went down to £59, he replied; ''we'll give you 50% discount''. I do not understand their ways of running business. Is this a farmers market??
    Anyway I am not going to give up this time.

    1.1 Problem with creaking front suspension, when driving slowly over speed bumps, potholes, driveway. This started about 13 months ago. At the beginning was mild and was getting worse moth after month. Went and seen 4 mechanics (local garages). No-one knew exactly what caused the creak. Vehicle was inspected on the ramp with hydraulics, crow bars, ground inspection and test drive. All of them heard creaking but no one knew how to fix it. They replaced front shock absorbers, rubber bushings on roll bar / stabilizer, sway bars links. The problem still present. Given the replaced parts and labor, we're almost broke...Few days ago I decided to experiment and spray the rubber bushings on the lower control arms and follow developments. Sprayed horizontal ones and hasn't made any difference driving for two days. Today I sprayed the vertical ones. Straight improvement after test driving it and creak disappeared, although the suspension doesn't seem to be very stiff but be I believe its better than before. I reckon bushings are worn and they will start to creak again at some point. But at least I narrowed to what I believe is a fault.
    Honestly, if I had some the tools, a hydraulic car jack etc... would replace most of the parts. Especially with this great forum and its content. Car also needs new tires, but will have to wait for Toyota inspection regarding steering.

    Btw 12v battery vent / hose connector is too large and doesn't fit well. Will try to find something smaller.
    I am going to follow your advice on the points 2.3...and will update my findings.

    Many thanks

    AC was cleaned last year when refilling. Will clean the evaporator myself this time, just need to buy spray.
     
    #42 Battery driven, Jun 4, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  3. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Thanks for providing the list. I just wanted to ensure your car did not have other problems which are related to the odor problem.

    1. The steering problem sounds like a safety issue, the local dealer or a competent independent needs to evaluate the steering system and explain to you what is going on. I hope you can demonstrate the free-play and jumped tooth issue upon demand. The dealer service writer should be shown your observations.

    1.1 Regarding the lower control arm bushings that no longer creak after being sprayed with lubricant - excellent detective work, it sounds like you have determined exactly what is the problem. If the noise returns you will know the control arms need to be replaced (I don't think the bushings can be separately replaced.)

    3. When measuring voltage across the 12V battery, first measure the voltage while the car is IG-OFF, first thing in the morning before the car has been driven, to see what the open-circuit voltage is. Then make the Prius READY, and measure the voltage again which will show what the DC/DC converter voltage is.
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?
     
  5. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    3. Measurements on the 12 volt battery:
    - ignition OFF 12.4V
    - ingnition ON = 12.16V
    - READY = 13.86V
    - READY and consumer headlights = 13.87V

    Waiting for a better weather so I can dismantle passage to the hybrid battery.
    I also ordered spare push-type retainers and the tool, supposedly its difficult to remove them without the damage.
    How do I go about removing tube vents if (I want to smell them or have them of few days ) of the hybrid battery without possible injury. Thick rubber gloves?

    I've sniffed the boot but it ain't easy to allocate the smell. Yesterday was really nice weather and we driven the car for about 20miles. We could both smell strong smell. Especially because it was hot and it made it worse (burning in sinuses).
    It took 3 days that the smell became faint on the jacket.
    Clothes get soaked with the smell. And sinuses just get used to of the smell.

    90.000miles
     
    #45 Battery driven, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I haven't needed to remove the vent tubes so I do not know what is involved. It would be a good idea to wear some sort of glove protection when working on the battery to protect your hands from possible electrolyte leakage, not to mention the high voltage present.

    3. The 12V battery measurements are good. They indicate the battery is in reasonable condition and that the DC/DC converter is not overcharging the battery.

    Did you consider removing the 12V battery to see if the smell follows the battery or not? That would address the suggestion from the link you referred to in post #30.
     
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  7. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    You mentioned reasonable condition? What is the ideal? Battery is about 2 months old.
    Removing the 12V battery right now. But will have to go back this evening, we need the car over weekend.

    The hybrid battery inspection seems quite time consuming, therefore I'll proceed with this after Toyota appointment.
    I am not sure if I ordered the correct size push/retainers as there is tons of different size available.
    How many times they can be reused?
     
  8. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    There, I fixed it for you. ;)

    Do you think that no one else here owns another car? Or that no one ever travels in other people's cars or has non Prius accustomed passengers sometimes travelling with them?

    I often have passengers who are totally unaccustomed to the Prius, some of them world class whiners and complainers, and yet so far not one compliant about a stinky Prius. Now given the many people who actually have the problem say that the smell is so bad that it permeates their clothing for days, I'm absolute certain that (even if I was somehow immune to the smell) I would have received some complaints by now, but yet there have been none.

    Look, no one comes onto these forums and says "My Prius has a flat tire. Therefore I believe that all Prius have flat tires all the time, but people just don't notice it". For some reason however, just out every time the topic of "stinky" Prius come up there is always at least one person wanting to claim that it is a universal problem.

    Given that the problem is reported here from time to time makes me believe that it certainly is a real issue, however I am in no way convinced that it is anywhere even close to being the "universal" problem that some people suggest.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    your ig off should be 13+ on a new battery. it may be something as simple as trickle charge to bring it up to speed, the car won't do that for you. my 3 year old battery is 12.7v.
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Are these fasteners between hatch floor and top of battery?

    In my experience, albeit with 3rd gen, while they were pretty tough to pop free, none broke. A few slipped out of their (open slot) moorings on the floor underside. Because there are also hooks and a bolt, I elected to leave all the plastic fasteners OFF at reassembly. It makes subsequent removal much easier.

    Again, this is with 3rd gen, but I don't think you should dwell too much on the fastener issue.

    I keep thinking you could cobble something, to replace the (allegedly stinky) vent tube: appropriate diameter vinyl tube, with holes drilled in it at the cell vent locations, a stopper at one end, connected to the original vent conduit.

    Or use smaller diameter tubing, branching out from a trunk line with T-connectors.
     
    #50 Mendel Leisk, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
  11. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi Battery Driven. I've had a 12V battery very similar to that one of yours installed in my Prius for over two years now. I know it's not an ideal OEM replacement, but mine has given me absolutely no problems so far.

    With the vent tube and the elbow not fitting properly, on mine I just removed the elbow joint and stuffed the rubber tube directly into the vent hole on the battery. It was a fairly snug fit and I think it is sealing ok. I did also wrap a bit of plumbers (teflon) tape around it to make sure it was tight, and it seems to be doing the job. Also, on my replacement battery there was a vent hole in both ends of the battery, so if yours is the same then make sure you plug up the unused one.

    My post here has some more details if you want to take a look: Finally replaced my 8.5 year old 12V battery! Non AGM??? | PriusChat
     
  12. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    I agree with most of the points given and not saying it is universal problem, just saying that currently is unbearable and we don't think its healthy.

    Battery is out and will trickle charge it over night.
    I let in portable air cleaner inside for few hours to freshen up the interior.

    Already looking at the mobility batteries but don't know what to choose. Britprius was suggesting Rital and we can't find them anywhere cheap.
    They're priced more than OEM which currently sets £116 and we may end just buying one.

    Cheers.
    Lets say I'll do DIY on this venting, will I need to get heat resistant rubber tubing. How hot these batteries get?
     
    #52 Battery driven, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I monitor the middle temp sensor on mine. There's 3 sensors along length of pack, and middle one supposedly hottest. Anyway, highest I've seen (with ScanGauge) is maybe 45C. I'd guestimate highest would be 50~55C.
     
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  14. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    Thanks for the figures. If it comes down to the ''smelly tubes'' then I might do a DIY on these.
    I don't want to speculate, yet.
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Thinking about the price of those vent tubes, it seems to me:

    If there's a part that's easily replicable, a lot of potential customers just circumvent the purchase, make something up from commonly available (and much cheaper) materials. And that just drives the part price up more, 'cause no one's buying.

    As far as temperature, I think you'd be ok with black vacuum tubing, the stuff that's used in the engine bay.

    Something like this might work: elbows on the vents:

    Capture.JPG

    Then some T-connectors:

    Capture.JPG
    All connected by short sections of vacuum tubing. Should work, as long as the c/c of vent spigots is greater than the length of the T-connector's main section.

    ^ Hopefully the price of all these pieces doesn't end up rivalling the OEM part, lol. If that was the case, a simple tube with holes drilled in it at the vent loc's would be a lot cheaper. When drilling the holes, maybe put a slim dowel inside it, to prevent the tube collapsing as you drill? Or not: small diameter likely pretty stiff, if you drill slowly.
     
    #55 Mendel Leisk, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2015
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  16. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    Thanks for this.
    Just vent of the phone with the garage where they rebuild hybrid batteries. He reckons the smell is more likely
    due to the hybrid battery or poor venting and not 12V battery. My appointment with Toyota regarding the steering is next week.
    After that I'll inspect the hybrid battery and clean the vent compartment.
    I am just trying to narrow down as from where this smell is coming from. Currently 12V battery is out, with ozone cleaner running in the car.
    I might put in also dehumidifier.
    If i am not able to allocate the issue, will drive to this guy who repairs batteries for the inspection.
     
  17. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yes this. Like I said, my 12V battery is very similar to yours and has given me no trouble at all. I know that 12V batteries can get a bit of a sulphuric acid smell if they are overcharging and gassing a lot, but with your 12V battery in good health and the charging system working correctly, that definitely won't happen. Besides, from the description of the smell that most people give it doesn't sound at all like the sulphuric smell of a gassing lead acid battery anyway. So I'd say you're looking in wrong direction by worrying too much about the 12V battery.

    I think it's the tubes on the HV battery, that's the cause that others with this problem have discovered. Just why some Priuses get this problem of these rubber tubes degrading, while most don't get a problem, I don't know.
     
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  18. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    Something else. Local Toyota dealer told us that the 5year warranty on the hybrid battery expired. Therefore weren't interested in investigating this.
    They lied. We just found out that the warranty in UK is 8 years or 100.000 miles.

    Customer service is closed now. Will have a chat with them on Monday.
    Toyota should dealt with these faults better. The main two problems we're experiencing aren't due of the normal wear and tear.

    This is an interesting link:

    Google Translate
     
    #58 Battery driven, Jun 5, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2015
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pm brit prius for his source.
     
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  20. Battery driven

    Battery driven Junior Member

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    Regarding the mobility battery?