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NexPower V3 hybrid battery unveil - Sodium-ion battery

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by amarino, Jul 4, 2024.

  1. amarino

    amarino Member

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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's about time someone started using this amazing new technology
     
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    Finally, we can publicly talk about the development of this chemistry after trying so many different types of chemistry. There's been so much testing of these and other cells in the past 9 months and we've not been able to talk about it till today.

    I have one of these packs here at my place if anyone wants me to take photos or examine things. Just let me know?

    I remember listening to a podcast covering the national battery maker convention in Detroit back in 2018 and they were talking about Sodium based batteries that ship at 0.0volts. And here we are a 1/2 dozen year later and it's for real! And don't worry, your battery will ship with enough charge to make it plug and play.

    What's more the ethical value of not being lithium based is a really big deal too! Of course, ironically, Lithium is just a specific type of salt. So it's all just salty stuff in general.

    And as always, anyone who buys one of these using my affiliate link will get free unlimited tech support and if you live nearby a discount on installation: www.projectlithium.com/?ref=9qLPw
     
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  4. amarino

    amarino Member

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    If you have pictures of your own install that would be good to share. How is the 3D printed case holding up? As soon as I saw that I was a bit worried if the final customer units would be like that also.

    He also mentions in the video the Operating Temperature is from -40F to 140F. In places where its gets to 100+ F outside I know it can get to 140F inside the car after parking outside for some time. It would be good to have a bit more buffer there I think.
     
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  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    4 years ago when Jack finished the final prototypes they were also 3D printed, but soon as he went into production there was a standard plastic injection cast mold created. I suspect this will be the same...
     
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  6. mudder

    mudder Member

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  7. mudder

    mudder Member

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    Yes, please. I would like to know which Na-ion cell they're using, so I can evaluate its suitability as a traction battery.

    Edit: Looks like they're using 32140 cylindrical cells in the non-GT version.
     
    #7 mudder, Jul 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2024
  8. jacktheripper

    jacktheripper Active Member

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    A limited number of V3 with 3D printing case (we call it golden top, as seen in the video) will be available to purchase on 7/11/2024. The injection molding version (most likely in plain black color) will be available to ship in mid-August. V3 GT (blade style) will be available to ship in September.

     
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  9. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Junior Member

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    I'm glad to see V3 has finally come to fruition and I hope it addresses some of the issues of the earlier packs. Out of curiosity though, why a GT and non-GT pack? Seems like it would take more development effort, you have 2 different form factors, presumably 2 different BMS's, and it seems like it would just overall complicate things... but what do I know. If the GT pack is better/more durable/etc.... Why not just sell that one, especially for the small price delta?
     
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  10. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    I suspect the details of that are in the amount of many different designs tested and that these two designs were the ones most worthy of production.
     
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  11. jacktheripper

    jacktheripper Active Member

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    good question, reason being we have more than 13 design concepts since the beginning of the project and these final 2 candidates not only survived but stood out, A more in-depth video coming up soon explaining the diff between V3 and V3 GT

    Jack

     
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  12. jacktheripper

    jacktheripper Active Member

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    Exactly!
    The success is through lots of hard work, trial and error and lots of money, some people gave up and turned on me but that's ok, those people motivated me to work even harder!

     
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  13. Xterra72

    Xterra72 Senior Member

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    Still have the original hybrid battery.

    looking into this one:

    V3 GT (blade style) will be available to ship in September.
     
  14. mudder

    mudder Member

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    Just to be completely clear, I never actually started working with @jacktheripper, hence I didn't 'give up'. Rather, Jack and I parted ways even before the concept stage. Jack was the one who decided not to work with me, probably because he didn't like my feedback regarding safety concerns I had with his V1 design.

    I'm making this clarification because Jack's wording might imply to a 3rd party that I possibly worked on one of the many designs that didn't make it to production. This is not just a hypothetical; someone has shown me private conversation they had with Jack wherein Jack made false claims regarding work I had performed on a Prius concept that ended poorly, which is 100% false. When Jack made this statement, I had never even been inside a Prius. I've hinted at this libelous statement previously, but just want to make it crystal clear that I did not develop ANY work product for ANY NexCell design.
     
  15. mudder

    mudder Member

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    I still don't completely understand why you chose to release both products. If the V3 GT is substantially better, costs only slightly more, and reuses the existing mechanical design language, why also release the non-GT V3? Even if the non-GT V3 version 'works', that the V3 GT 'works better' would make it the clear winner. Maybe if the non-GT was substantially cheaper, but it's not.

    Interesting choice to release both products. Looking forward to your further explanation in said video. This will be confusing to your customers.
     
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  16. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Junior Member

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    Yeah, this is what I don't get. Just watching back the unveil video, and I quote, "...Ultra low internal resistance. This means it runs cooler for heavy drivers. For example: rideshare, taxi, or delivery."

    So, if it's designed to run cooler, and it mentions what I would consider severe duty use cases... I presume it's designed with more durability in mind, or some other functional difference since we're comparing pouch to cylindrical cells. Again, would need some independent analysis or some details on the specifications, but presumably overall capacity difference? BMS differences? Etc.

    And "The MPG you will get with the V3 GT Sodium Ion is equivalent to the Lithium variant or even better."

    I'm sure @mudder can say more about this, but looking at his Initial Analysis Thread (Discussion: NexPower V3 Sodium-ion Battery Announcement | PriusChat), the non-GT pack only has a usable capacity <0.5kWh. Plus there might possibly be heat concerns, but I await judgement until more testing starts showing up.

    If all of the above is true and it's only a slight increase in price from the regular V3... Why not focus all effort and quality there? Especially since it's using an existing form factor and should allow it to be more user-serviceable in case you end up with a bad module early in its lifespan, which happens. Not to mention, this would confuse customers, no? If (a big if, I await independent analysis) this GT pack is objectively superior in functionality while being in a more serviceable form factor, why on earth would you not pay the slight premium for it.

    I would like to see a more in-depth comparison of V3 vs. GT
     
    #16 BuckleSpring, Jul 4, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2024
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  17. mudder

    mudder Member

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    [Quote above is paraphrased]
    I agree. I certainly believe Jack's statement that NexCell developed multiple designs in parallel. However, when it became clear that the 'GT V3' variant was viable, why wasn't an executive decision made to cancel the 'non-GT V3' variant? Who is the non-GT variant even made for? Customers that never accelerate hard? What happens if a 'rideshare' customer buys the non-GT variant, and then it fails? Does that invalidate their (one year) warranty?

    @jacktheripper, can you please clarify why you intend to sell both products at a similar price, even though one is purportedly better? It's not too late to just release the pouch variant as the 'V3' design. It's so much less confusing. $1800 for a better product is a no-brainer to me.
     
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  18. Xeico

    Xeico Junior Member

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    It turns out that people with older versions were left without a solution to the problem, but as @mudder showed, the problems have not gone away, and they have only become more numerous.
    Well, now, a new version on cells with chemistry that no one is using yet.
    What happens if the cells start to fail? I'm really interested in how people will fix the standard version №3 or pay for the delivery of half the battery..
    Experiments on your clients at their expense, as usual...
    You are digging a hole for yourself, even from such a short video I saw a bunch of problems that you still haven’t solved..
     
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  19. BuckleSpring

    BuckleSpring Junior Member

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    Yeah, this is probably my main concern. Even looking past some of the possible flaws mudder pointed out in his other thread, repairability on the non-GT just seems like a not great idea. Like here's a battery with XX Number of cells, relatively unknown chemistry, and a 1 year warranty.... What do you do if you get a weak cell 14 months from now? Toss the whole $1500 pack and start over? Mail it in for a repair for a fee? The RMA process alone for a small business for something like this seems like it would be a massive PITA compared to just shipping and exchanging a module

    If the GT version is already allegedly superior, and you get the replaceable modules... That seems like the way to go. So even if something were to happen, you could buy an individual module (Assuming purchase price of $1800 and 14 modules, that's $128/pc, let's assume they want to charge ~$135-150/pc), that's way easier and cheaper than $1500.
     
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  20. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    It's actually quite the opposite of your false claims. Over the past 4 years of working with Jack I've seen all of his customers being gifted or charged a small fee to get the latest iteration of his work. No one is left behind because Jack is a very generous businessman.

    I can assure you that if your pack has a problem and regardless of it being still under warranty or the warranty being expired, Jack doesn't disappoint his customers. That being said there's a 1/2 dozen people out there in cyberspace who troll Jack's work at every opportunity and aren't respectful or rationale when it comes to what they say about his business practices. Their claims are more vindictive than factual and your comment is a good example of that.
     
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