Next Gen Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by SPQR105, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. SPQR105

    SPQR105 Junior Member

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    Hey guys,

    I know this is all conjecture but based on Toyota's new Rav4 Prime offering with an EV range of 39 miles, would you suspect that the next gen prius prime will exceed this figure?

    My thoughts are that they should be able to with a proper skateboard platform instead of locating the battery in the cabin.

    I'm hoping they provide at least 50 miles+ of ev range or I will be severely disappointed.

    If I'm not mistaken, this car should be released for model year 2022 correct? Maybe we would see it at the auto shows next fall?

    I'm currently driving a 2014 prius 3 with 150k miles on it so I'm really hoping I can make it to the release of this car (I drive approx 30k miles/yr and I do not baby it at all. However, I maintain the vehicle very well).

    Thanks for your input.
     
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  2. cometguy

    cometguy New Member

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    The current Prius Prime only has an 8.8-kWh battery pack, I think. The RAV4 Prime will get a 17.3-kWh pack (nearly twice that of the Prius'). I would think that there would be less interior space if they try to replicate that in the Prius'; the RAV4' benefits from its larger size. That said, I don't think that the Chevy Volt is much larger than the Prius', and the Volt has an 18.4-kWh pack. Not sure what Toyota's problem is there...
     
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  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    The Volt’s battery intrudes into the cabin. It’s a T-shape so the cabin has a large tunnel. Toyota stuffs the battery in the trunk. Also, Toyota uses air cooling so requires more space than a liquid-cooled battery.
     
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  4. SPQR105

    SPQR105 Junior Member

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    Wouldn't it be plausible for the prius to double its battery size if they were to place it on the floor and perhaps some cells in the trunk?

    The prius is being cannibalized by other Toyota models as well as defectors to other brands. I'd have to think Toyota has to do something drastic if they want to save the car.

    I'm hoping that results in increased ev range and not just an 8.8kwh plug-in battery standard on every Prius (althoug it should be).
     
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Absolutely. If Toyota wanted to, they could increase the pack size by 50% and add liquid cooling and pack it into the trunk of the current Prime and lower the floor.

    Cost was one reason Toyota went with air cooled. Also, the Prime doesn’t require excessive cooling since it can use the gas engine as a backup (unlike the LEAF for example). The Volt may have had a longer range (and same as the Clarity) but it was more expensive than the Prime.
     
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    a larger battery, even under the floor in a whole new design will cost hybrid mpg's.

    i suspect toyota has an expectant market for the rav4 prime, but not likely prius prime. rav4 is a utilitarian vehicle, currently popular by any measure.
    prius is an eco vehicle, currently unpopular. all that will change sometime in the future, but for now, i would think they would put their effort into getting the existing battery fully under the hatch.

    nevertheless, i'm interested to see what the next gen will bring.
     
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  7. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Hmmm, for the RAV4 Prime I just took the Prime's battery pack, kept the voltage the same but doubled the Ah and came up with 17.58kWh. I figured if Toyota can double the original battery kWh in 5 years from the PiP to the Prime they should be able to double it again in 5 years between the Prime and RAV4 Prime. So could they use 3 of those packs and make a Prius EV to 53 kWh or just use the RAV4 Prime battery to get 50 mile AER in a next gen Prius Prime?
     
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  8. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yeah a RAV4 Prime's battery pack should get close to 50 miles for the Prime (maybe 45 miles? Unless the weight has been reduced).
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    not sure i follow you. double it in what way? it is a physically larger battery in prime than pip. so large it wouldn't fit under the floor. of course, the independent suspension probably didn't help.
    don't forget, toyota wasnt going to increase ev range in prime until toyota usa told them it wouldn't sell.
     
  10. mister2cool

    mister2cool Junior Member

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    I hope you guys realize that the days are numbered for the existence of entire Prius line. The countdown started when Corolla Hybrid was introduced since Prius was built on a Corolla chassis so it would make no sense to build two essentially the same cars on the same chassis with very different designs and under different names.
    The Prime might exist a little longer until Toyota decides where it wants to go with electrifying. Either turn it into full EV or add Prime to every other model, or they might just do both.
     
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  11. Skylis A

    Skylis A Senior Member

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    A "Prius EV" (not hybrid) that goes 0-60 in under 7 seconds, goes at least 300 miles on a charge, is more efficient than LiIon at the North Pole (a.k.a., solid state) esp. for better regen, and doesn't have the phantom drain of a Tesla, would be my recommendation to go with Prime's successor. Battery pack would go under the car, not in the car.

    But then how to compete against Tesla Supercharger...? I'm not sitting around on L2 for 4 hours to regain 100 miles on a road trip. Any fast "open" standard soon for Toyota...?
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That's a red herring. The interest for a hatchback model will continue, regardless of name.
     
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  13. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    It's more like model year 2023, which is at least three years from now -- current Prime got its mid-cycle refresh only a few months ago. It's not worth speculating or expecting what the new model will be like. You might as well be waiting for two more updates with the model year 2029.
     
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    That'll be Gen 6 Prius.

    The reason I say that is that the Gen 5 (if we're going on the 6 year cycle of the last 3 generations of Prius... which, frankly, is too long imo), will arrive for the 2022 model year. I believe that's a bit too soon for Toyota to launch production-ready solid-state batteries. One option is that Toyota continues to release the Prius as a regular hybrid or releases it as a PHEV and then delays the launch of the Prius EV until 2025 (like it did when it offset the Prime's launch date from the regular Prius) so that it'll be the first Toyota with solid state batteries.

    Well all other EVs use DCFC in the form of CCS or CHAdeMo. I hope Toyota offers CCS as we do have 150kW CCS chargers around (that'll top up 10-80% in about 30-40 minutes for Li-Ion batteries. I don't know what the charging characteristics of solid-state will be but I assume it'll be able to charge at a faster rate). CHAdeMO right now is limited to 50kW (though some working group is developing a CHAdeMO 2.0 standard).

    You will not be using L2 on road trips unless you're stopping for a longer period (e.g. a meal or overnight accommodation). Most public chargers top out at 6.6kW shared so if you're lucky to get one to yourself, you're charging at about 20-25mph. If someone else is there, you're at 3.3kW each and charging at about 10-15mph. Doing some research, L2 can go up to 19.2kW or 70mph of charging but that's not available publicly. At home, it usually tops out around 8.2kW on a 50A circuit (220V 3-phase) or 7.2kW on a 40A circuit (240V, single-phase)
     
  15. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Let’s look what happened in Europe when they introduced the Corolla Sport and Touring hybrid hatchbacks.

    Total Hybrid sales in Europe were 392,804. Of those the C-HR Hybrid was the number 1 seller at 94,536. Corolla with the Hybrid Sport and Touring Hatchbacks and Hybrid Sedan got another 89,835 sales. The Yaris Hybrid took 86,330 while the RAV4 Hybrid sucked up 75,168 sales. The other 46,935 sales were split among the Camry Hybrid and the three Prius models (Prius+, Prius and Prius PHV).

    I would probably guess the Prius is not long for the European market or at least it may shrink in models.

    Note: these were yearly sales figures were as of October 21 of this year. No data yet from November.


    Unsupervised!
     
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  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    I think the future of the battery and charging technology will go with high-voltage charging -- around 10 - 20 kV. Then you can put 300 miles in 5 or 10 minutes. The current technology allows it but it will be a while -- probably a decade -- before new standards and safety protocols are developed.
     
  17. mister2cool

    mister2cool Junior Member

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    That'll never happen in US household as we can't even get off using 110V. Imagine the line of lawyers licking their chops at the door when you have a 20Kv outlet... LOL That's not to say there can't be those super charging stations.
     
  18. Imagine

    Imagine New Member

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    EV Prius or bust imo, but since this is Toyota, watch it be some sort of hydrogen plug-in...thingie. Although, for the right price...
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Oh, no, I am talking about public charging stations of the future that will be equivalent to gas stations of the present, where you can fill up your (gas tank or battery) in about five or ten minutes.
     
  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    iirc, toyota is commited to prius in some form. we cant be shortsighted in thinking that gas prices will never increase again, or there won't be another recession.
    i din't think corolla is a worthy alternative, from what i've read.
     
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