Next Gen Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by SPQR105, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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  2. SPQR105

    SPQR105 Junior Member

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    The next gen should be a model year 2022 right? Meaning we should start hearing about specs sometime around next year?
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Supposedly 2022.

    Well depends who leaks it lol
     
  4. I'mJp

    I'mJp Senior Member

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    I would love to see pictures of the Rav4 battery pack.

    What if it were exactly 2 Prius prime "big squares" bolted under the chassis ?

    I hope it's better than this.
     
  5. Ming C

    Ming C New Member

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    It's going to be interesting to see where Toyota takes the Prime for the next gen/2.0 iteration.

    Corolla hybrid, RAV4 Prime and many other competitors from other car makers are eating heavily into the OG that is the Prius that started out way back in 2000.

    Here's my thought on some major points that customers/public will want in deciding which high fuel efficiency vehicle to choose from:

    • High EV range - the RAV4 Prime is going to be a huge hit with its now updated 42-miles of EV only range, the battery is much larger than the current Prime but it is also tasked with moving alot more vehicle and at much less aerodynamic flow than the Prime due to it sitting higher and is a more blocky suv shape
    • Very competitive efficiency when gasoline must be used - continued improvement in overall MPG when accounting for gas use. Not sure if the tech/engineering is there...but if real world efficiency can reliably and easily be acheived at 65mpg+ that will be huge (obviously hyper-milers will scoff at this number, but given that we're kinda hitting a ceiling with real world MPG in the upper 50s, a reliable 65+ MPG will be a huge point)
    • Cargo and interior room - RAV4 Prime will again be extremely popular due to its high EV range AND due to its chassis being a crossover, families will love the cargo room and the interior room. The main issue with the current Prius is the chassis....can Toyota re-engineer it so that a much larger battery pack can fit while not compromising or even making larger cargo and interior room?
    I think the challenge is very tough, and if anyone can do it, it probably is Toyota. I would imagine if Toyota has Prius in its long-term strategic plan, that the next gen Prime should be a very good step up from the current model especially given very very fierce competition from the RAV4 Prime and from the Corolla hybrid.
     
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  6. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    I am not sure if it is even theoretically possible to get high MPG in an SUV vehicle, due to air resistance losses, which is the major source of energy loss at speeds above 45mph or so, and goes up fast with the cube of speed. The distinctive "funny", but very aerodynamic, shape of the Prius is a big part of its high MPG. Braking by regeneration, making the gasoline engine more efficient, and reducing the rolling resistance of the tires, can only go so far
     
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  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    There were 2 generations of prototype prior to the 2012-2015 production of Prius PHV. Seeing Prius Prime expected to go 5-6 years with upgrades rolling out via RAV4 Prime in the meantime, it simply makes no sense trying to put any type of label on design anymore. This is now just part of the continuous improvement approach Toyota does exceptionally well. It's pretty easy to see the priorities at this point too.

    Packaging will improve. Moving the battery-pack to the floor (which yes, could cause Prius get taller as CH-R sharing the same chassis already did) would be a natural next step. That would enable greater capacity as well as aggressive forced-air cooling. The result would be an increase in both EV range & power, as well as an increase in cargo space.

    Consider the goal. It is quite realistic to see an effort to phase out the regular hybrid model, serving as a guide to helping move the entire fleet forward. That may not be feasible upon launch, but should be an expectation for the end of its product-cycle... which means being cost-competitive is vital and improving MPG from hybrid-mode simply not a priority.

    The important thing to remember is Toyota is moving many pieces in the game all at the same time. So, it isn't always easy to recognize why certain steps are taken.
     
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  8. Ming C

    Ming C New Member

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    Makes sense. The traditional big step-up upgrade is probably gone as companies do incremental upgrades each year.

    I just saw a youtube review of the Toyota Supra and the expectation is yearly improvements to help keep sales up. So not surprising similar approach could be taken with the Prime. Though nothing huge has changed since the initial release of the Prime in 2016. So maybe something is in the works in the next 1-3 years?

    I agree that the next logical step is to get a bigger battery into the Prime....but the problem is it will neccessitate it being under the floor to not sacrafice interior/cargo room...which would mean a re-engineering of the chassis/ride-height...and hence likely a loss in aerodynamic efficiency and overall less efficiency....even though we do get a bigger battery pack. It's hard to have your cake and eat it too....
     
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    No re-engineering necessary. That was delivered years ago, already on the road disguised as CH-R. It is a different vehicle body sharing the same chassis. It is even available as a hybrid in Europe and Australia. This is confirmation that Toyota plans ahead and experiments to finding a way of achieving the most challenging goals. In this case, it is to effectively raise the floor without impact to being cost-competitive.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    btw, Prius has served as a great vehicle (pun intended) for the introduction of new technologies.

    It is not out of the realm of possibilities that Prius could be the first to utilize a semi-solid or solid state battery. That improvement to reduce/eliminate the electrolyte has been getting closer and closer to becoming a commercial reality. The benefit would be especially impressive for PHEV use. You could exceed the current thermal limits, allowing greater flexibility from 40-mile range design. That's new opportunity to exploit.

    Think about what it would be like to connect to a basic 50kW fast-charger with a 18.1 kWh battery-pack. 20 minutes for a full charge at a retail or grocery store would be no big deal. In fact, that could be sighted as a nice selling point for those unable to recharge at their apartment or condo. Having your cake and eating it too...
     
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  11. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    As @john1701a said this has already been done. Look at the Lexus UX300e, also made on the same platform as the Prius Prime and it’s not quite as long as the Prius Prime but they managed to fit a 54KWh battery pack under the floor.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the next Prius includes a Prius e. On a Prius Prime, that UX300e battery pack could take it >200 miles. There are a lot things Toyota would like to see in production they could use for initial EV such as showcasing their new artificial intelligence (AI) system call Yui. There are a lot of unknowns with AI and how they’ll present it to driver or even other Prius e on the road. They might even try to slip in their level 4 autonomous system or even showcase further solar development. This might be an impetus for them to provide a more comprehensive Over The Air (OTA) system.


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  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Taking your observation another step forward, there's the approach of adding more stacks in the pack to increase capacity. If you triple the capacity of RAV4 Prime (18.1 kWh), you get the what is being used for UX300e (54.3 kWh). It makes sense that Toyota is working to reuse as much as possible. It also makes a lot of sense to take advantage of the requirement in China to collect real-world data in preparation for that first BEV offering here. Seeing that as a model of Prius wouldn't surprise me either... or my wife, who knows how determined I would be to jump on that upgrade opportunity.
     
    #32 john1701a, Jun 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
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  13. Hidyho

    Hidyho Senior Member

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    Toyota will be very far behind in tech and innovation in the very near future, always decent cars, but always far behind.
     
  14. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Toyota USA Mission Statement: "To attract and attain customers with high-valued products and services and the most satisfying ownership experience in America."

    Toyota USA Vision Statement: "To be the most successful and respected car company in America."
     
  15. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    toyota striving for 'the most satisfying experience" and "respected car company" are nice feel good mission statements.
    I've attending personal training classes, like the top brass must have. That's a classic 'Mission Statement'!:whistle:

    But techy customers want high tech cars.

    The below might not be that:

    toyota needs to stop patching/stacking on and on, and incorporate a dedicated Thermal Management System for the HV battery.

    Asking an owner to poke a screen button asking,
    'Do you want the Cabin AC to run while charging, to [hopefully adequately] cool the battery pack?',
    is not a high tech approach.o_O

    Little resistance heater strips and gently blowing cabin air through the battery pack is not going to fly in a future BEV.

    High Tech BEV's are out there now!!!
    You don't have to wait! What does brand loyalty get you, personally? The corporation gets the benefit of it.:rolleyes:
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Toyota wrote the book on continuous improvement, quite literally. RAV4 Prime demonstrates that well... and also reveals you either are not paying attention or you are simply passing along outdated information.
     
  17. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Toyota’s two new systems the RAV4 Prime and UX300e have dedicated cooling systems. Toyota has been building NiMH battery packs with the same 6.5 Ah cells since Gen 2 Prius. They’ve been making them smaller, lighter and more reliable and as a result can offer, IMHO, the best hybrid system of any car and without tax credits. I fully believe they’ll take the 51 Ah lithium cells they make now and expand them throughout their prime (sorry couldn’t help myself) lineup all the while making them smaller, lighter and more reliable. When the tax credits end, they won’t be recreating a new battery for each new car like Tesla does. They’ll just build on what they have. Kind of reminds me of the rabbit and the hare story.

    Toyota’s two new systems the RAV4 Prime and UX300e have do not use Cabin AC. They have their own dedicated cooling system that will and can be easily mass produced. Lexus went a little further and created a new more efficient AC that’s derived from seat heaters. Along with the gas-injected heat pump they already have something Tesla didn’t have until the Model Y. I believe you’ll never see that message in any new Toyota BEV or PHEV again.

    Reliability



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  18. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Thanks for the info!
    Yeah, I saw that the RAV4 Prime has a proper coolant based TMS, according to that one video.
    Welcome to the future toyota, finally!

    edit: Does it operate as a 100% EV even when you punch it on an entrance ramp? Or start the cold ICE to assist? Asking for a friend..:whistle:

    As for 'Reliability' ,,, new numbers come out every year on that subject.

    Plus there's the time waiting for your favorite brand-name to put out the exact BEV that you want.
    There are really nice BEV's available today!!!

    People used to say "We're a Ford, Chevy, etc, family". I don't get it.....
     
    #38 Bill Norton, Jun 16, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2020
  19. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    As long as you have EV range left and it’s left in EV mode, then yep it operates as a 100% EV even when punched to merge onto a highway. If you press the Auto EV/HV button then the ICE will come on to assist, but if it’s anything like the Prius Prime, you’ll have to smash the gas pedal. Hopefully they fixed that so it’ll turn on the ICE without pegging the gas pedal and looking at the dashboard they might have. On the Prius Prime we have an EV Auto button while on the RAV4 Prime it says Auto EV/HV so I’m guessing that button is a dual mode like the normal EV/HV button. My guess is one mode is like the Prius Prime EV Auto, mostly EV but with ICE usage in extreme situations. Press it again and it’s more hybrid but with enhanced EV. If you want all 302 hp the EV/HV Auto button is the one to use.

    Keep the normal EV/HV button pressed for 3 seconds and it’ll keep the ICE running to charge the traction battery to 80%.

    I’ve owned Chevys, Fords, Pontiacs, Buicks, Toyotas and Lexus.




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