Next stop: $3.35 per gallon, according to fuel experts

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 5 2007, 10:57 PM) [snapback]418583[/snapback]</div>

Yes

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 6 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]418777[/snapback]</div>

HA!

I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, you know.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(screaming red @ Apr 5 2007, 09:40 PM) [snapback]418643[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, this is the problem for us in this country. While in Europe, car manufacturers do make passenger cars with towing capacity, none of the US sedans can tow more than about 1,000 pounds. At least, the last time I checked. It used to be that your average Impala or Thunderbird could tow up to 2,500 or 3,000 pounds ... enough for most of the middle class campers and boats out there.

The rich "green" stars in Hollywood can afford to jet to Cannes for vacation and then lecture us about CF light bulbs, but most Americans who like to fish and boat really can't afford to have more than two cars. It doesn't make economic sense to buy a car you never drive except for those long weekends and the two weeks of vacation you get. So you have to buy at least one car that can pull the trailer. And it has to serve double duty as a daily car also. So instead of an Impala or other sedan, you have to buy a SUV, truck or mini van.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 6 2007, 03:06 PM) [snapback]418982[/snapback]</div>

Or, you can simply rent that truck or SUV for the few days of the year that you really need it. Once I had to haul about 2000 lbs of building materials from Fresno to San Diego. So I rented a brand new F150 4x4 from Hertz for the day : about $60 plus gas. Sure was a lot cheaper than buying my own truck or having someone ship the stuff!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 5 2007, 11:50 PM) [snapback]418624[/snapback]</div>

Yes I do believe that oil company profits over the last couple of quarters have been upwards of $10 billion [link] apparently that's not enough.

I would like to see gas prices increase dramatically under one condition: the increase is solely due to increase in tax used to improve public transportation or perhaps to help fund battery research or such. basically do it like the euros do. That way fuel efficient vehicle drivers would still not effected as much as the gas guzzlers would be. which would hopefully have a more pronounced effect of hybrid sales, and lead to commercial EV production sooner.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ari @ Apr 6 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]419013[/snapback]</div>

Not to mention paying insurance on the thing for a year.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ Apr 5 2007, 08:51 PM) [snapback]418626[/snapback]</div>

I'm aware. Because I'm one of them.... well sort of. My official position is that expensive gas won't solve all our problems, but that cheap gas certainly got us into many of them!

Here's the deal: As long as I keep hearing that expensive gas makes people think about buying a more efficient car, and that they even consider *gasp* not driving so much - then that tells me that the only reliable way to head the direction we need to go is for gas to be more expensive. Yup, some people will be hurt. And at the rate we burn gasoline today, EVERYBODY gets hurt. You do the math, and you come up with the realization that expensive gas is what is best for most people - even if they don't realize it! Charging more for gas at the pump doesn't mean any of us really pays more for the gas - we just do it at the pump where it belongs.

Even I had to buy gas back in early March. Sucks. I might have to do it again in May.
Last month's tally for family travel:
525 miles by bicycle (me)
1030 miles by EV (my wife)
212 miles by Prius (the whole family)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Boxster...WRX...Prius? @ Apr 6 2007, 03:57 AM) [snapback]418678[/snapback]</div>

Here's a fine bit of irony. I just bought an '07 Prius, AND I'm in the oil/gas industry. I'm part of a small family run company.
However, the oil and gas companies are not the ones that are to blame. Are they(we) raking in profits? You betcha. Will it continue? Absolutely.

It's called simple economics. I'm sure everyone is familiar with the concept of Peak Oil. Actually, it should be called Peak Cheap Oil. The easy stuff has been extracted. What's left is either low quality (meaning more expensive refining to make it useful) or having to go to difficult places to get it. So, it's just plain more expensive to bring to market.
On top of this, you have the 'Power of 2 billion'. Right now, the 1 billion people in the developed world have gone through the easy stuff. But, India and China have seen the Western lifestyle and want it. So, what's happening is the oil/gas demand is in the process of tripling while production is leveling off. In the next few months, Peugeot will introduce a new car into the Chinese market. A brand new, if not featureless car for $5000. This is within reach of many Chinese families. On top of THAT, gasoline usage in the this country is higher than it has ever been. It must not be too bad yet, because we keep buying.

An Econ 101 course will tell you what will happen to the price.

I'm an oiler and even *I* believe we need to do something in this country to get off the juice before it's too late. It's going to take a massive investment in alternative energy. Unfortunately, even with that investment it's going to take a LONG time to turn the boat around - like 30 years. In the meantime, we'll continue to use oil. The pain of hyper expensive gasoline is coming. The only question is when.

 

It is depressing that even on a site like Priuschat, so many people complain about high fuel prices. Here's the scoop:

• Gas is worth a lot more than what we're paying for it now.
• Gas costs a lot more than what we're paying for it now (your income taxes are paying for the $1 trillion we're paying in Iraq to protect our oil supplies for example).
• The government has the responsibility to be proactive to handle the current energy and environmental problems. The free market is generally just reactive.
• Most people behave selfishly and will not conserve fuel unless it's in their best interests to do so. That's human nature.

Sure, more expensive fuel will be painful, but it's time to get real about our energy use. I can't believe all the whining about $3, $4, $5 gas. It's essential that we curb our fossil fuel use and no significant progress will be made as long as it is cheap (subsidized, no less).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmcelvain @ Apr 7 2007, 06:51 PM) [snapback]419578[/snapback]</div>

What do you see as a typical price of gasoline in 3-5 years ?
In Los Angeles area we have some state and local taxes to add as well.

As an OLD guy so I've experienced the good times with fuel. After the $2/barrel Saudi oil went away there is no stopping the price increases. Now with the additional demand increase you relate we better find out how to burn coal CLEANLY or ????.
Will be tough on the future generations.
Carl

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malibucarl @ Apr 7 2007, 10:14 PM) [snapback]419653[/snapback]</div>

I wish I knew exactly what gas prices were going to do. If I did, you'd be getting this message from my private luxury island in the South Pacific!

I do think that, in the long term, prices will go up. Limited availability, and increasing demand point to that. Add to the fact that the Middle East always seems to be in some sort of trouble, and I'd call it a lock. I also think that in the next few years, in the absence of a BIG shooting war, prices will stabilize. The price jump over the past couple of years has brought the speculators out of the woodwork.
There are many wells in the US that were shut in '90s because Saudi oil was so cheap, it simply wasn't profitable to pull it out of the ground. So, close the wellhead, and wait for higher prices. But, it takes time to manufacture well and pumping equipment. Also, a LOT of people left the oil industry after the price per barrel cratered in the late 80s/ early 90s. So, there's also a shortage of labor. That take time to build up as well. Once that oil starts starts coming into play, things SHOULD stabilize. The real wild cards are the Chinese and Indians. If their demand keeps up, then all bets are off.
That said, I think the Chinese economy will falter. Growth like they've has in the past decade can't be sustained forever. They will either make some sort of economic policy mistake or growth will simply get out of control. Heck, we have some of the finest economic policy minds in the world, and we manage to screw it up from time to time. I can't imagine the capitalist n00bs getting it right the first time. A major ecological disaster or a strategic and damaging terrorist attack could send the whole thing into a tailspin as well.

In the long term, with everything else staying at the status quo, oil will get more expensive. As emerging technology in alternative energy makes it more attractive and less expensive, it will ramp up.

Clear as mud, right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmcelvain @ Apr 9 2007, 06:32 AM) [snapback]420206[/snapback]</div>

I'd think if owners of U.S. oil were smart and not in a big hurry to get really rich, they keep the oil capped until almost all Middle Eastern oil was gone. Nobody seems to know how much they really have, and they're aren't going to tell.

In any case, we're going to have to stop wasting petroleum for energy and save it for other uses that only petroleum can satisfy.

Dave M.


Dave M.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmckinstry @ Apr 9 2007, 09:23 AM) [snapback]420224[/snapback]</div>

Ya think?

Is this how those bills to not drill in the 'wildlife refuge' keep getting passed?

We've been playing this game for 25 years..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Apr 6 2007, 06:04 PM) [snapback]419056[/snapback]</div>

What kills me:

Fat slobs . . . sitting in front of Wall Mart . . . hot summer day, running the ICE to keep AC on in their car . . . too lazy to get their fat arss's out of the car to walk in the air conditioned store ... just 75 feet away.

Boom Box - Giant sterio cars ... running the ICE ... as a generator for their car, as they either SIT around, doing nothing, or cruising up an down ... up and down ... up and down the blvd.

When folks like THESE, are no longer able to afford to waste gas like this?
THAT's when U.S.A. gas will cost the right amount.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmcelvain @ Apr 9 2007, 08:32 AM) [snapback]420206[/snapback]</div>

You point out an interesting problem that keeps many people from investing in fuel efficiency--the uncertainty of future energy prices. I think that the US government should not only implement a large tax in fuel, but it should also regulate the price. They should say gas will be $5.00/gal this summer, $7.50 next summer, $10.00 the summer after that (or some similar formula). That way consumers will know that they can save money now and in the future by investing in conservation and alternative fuels.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dmcelvain @ Apr 9 2007, 09:32 AM) [snapback]420206[/snapback]</div>

I agree. Price of all fuels will continue to rise. How much over what time span--that makes the market.
Carl
PS Please excuse above post--hit post by mistake

 

I tend to agree with the sentiment that gas prices ought to go up. Way up. And (not to inject politics, but) a lot of it ought to be in the form of taxes. Not only to discourage bad behavior, but also to go towards R&D into high mileage vehicles and alternative fuels to reduce our dependence on foreign oil and to help the environment. And it ought to be coupled with a huge increase in CAFE standards.

One problem, though, is the economic impact on lower income people. In that case, perhaps a fuel cost adjustment to the Earned Income Credit could help offset it.

And if you think about it, a lot of times (and I've been there), lower income folks end up buying older, fuel-inefficient beaters that end up costing them even more to operate than they can afford. And I read a statistic one time that I think said 70% of the air pollution from mobile sources comes from like 10%-20% of the older cars on the road.

A good public policy might be to just buy these fuel-inefficient beaters up and retire them, and help lower income folks buy more fuel efficient alternatives. Not to mention more and better public transportation, reducing urban sprawl, locating more (and better) jobs near where the workers live, better public education on economics and the environment and the hidden/deferred/subsidized public/society costs of pollution, etc. etc. etc.

Sorry. Don't get me started.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ari @ Apr 6 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]419013[/snapback]</div>

It is just as practical to own a bigger vehicle with the purpose of being the weekend family recreational vehicle / hauler. It is very convient to be able to buy anything from your 46 inch plasma to your new washer and dryer and not pay a delivery charge. Rather then knock people who own these vehicle why not demand that all the manufacturers actually do something to improve their efficiency, we all know they can do it, they just are slow to do it. Are you still going to complain when Ford releases their 50 MPG hydraulic hybrid F150 that is currently in the testing phase on a few UPS trucks, or is it still going to be impractical.