NHTSA Tracking Braking Loss on Prius Hybrids

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by RobertMBecker, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. Sangye Menla

    Sangye Menla Junior Member

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    Hey Brad rules, I respectively disagree with your point of view. As our country continues to go bankrupt fighting never ending wars, potholes are on the rise as city/county/state budgets increasingly get pinched.

    I will add my name to those who've experienced the braking failure. Yes, it's a fraction of a second, but when you are stopping for a pedestrian who jumps out into a cross walk and your car hits a pothole at the same moment - as mine did - things can get too close for comfort.

    I wasn't following anyone, and I was only going about 20 miles per hour in a 25 zone.

    Face it dude, this is a technological defect - or whatever you want to call it. The car was not designed to function that way.
     
  2. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

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    Brad,

    Even "veteran" users of any product can be wrong...especially when they set themselves up as "experts" who know better than others. I'm actually rather shocked that, if this issue has been around since the 2004 or earlier models, that you all didn't bring it to Toyota's attention with sufficient voice to have them do something about it. Almost deserves a "shame on you" guys...

    NO CAR, I dont' care what kind it is, whether expensive or cheap, hybrid/gas/deisel/electric, foreign or domestic, etc, should ever put the user in a situation where they sense, if even for a second, that their brakes have failed on them. Not when people do odd things when in a panic mode, and not when they're behind the wheel of a lot of metal and glass that can easily become a dangerous threat to another person's or their own, life. That's just bad engineering and I know Toyota can do better.

    Perhaps if you "veterans" had raised your collective voices loudly enough, we wouldn't be having this issue in the G3....It's funny, some of you "veterans" think we "newbies" are being unrealistic or something. I tend to think it's just the opposite, early adopters often do have to put up with qwerks and oddities of new technology- but this car is marketed right at the mainstream of the autobuying marketplace now...and perhaps it's the "veterans" who simply didn't want to see the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes. Maybe the freshness of the perspective of a bunch of newbies is what was needed to see that, in fact, the clothes were'nt there at all.

    So please, spare me the "veterans" vs. "newbies" lecture.
     
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  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If it is an imaginary problem, why would Toyota be making adjustments?

    Because the Audi fiasco demonstrated that doing nothing results is a PR and Marketing catastrophe. They must do something, whether or not there is something wrong with the car.

    If the problem is real, I'm not convinced that anyone yet knows the real cause. Therefore, I'm also not confident that any measures being taken now will go very far in resolving the alleged problems.
     
  4. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

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    So, are you suggesting that Toyota is making adjustments to cars willy-nilly without knowing what the cause is??? You're not serious are you??? You think maybe they just do "something" as in "just anything" like, oh I don't know, maybe adjust the side mirrors to remedy the problem and that'll do just fine? Very doubtful. I'm sure they know exactly what's happening and are making adjustments to ECU's or the braking system to find the right remedy for this situation. See, Toyota has a lot more Prius cars than any of us do. They have testing facilities, engineers, labs, etc, etc...they can easily recreate the problem, as many here are able to do, and I'm sure they know what's up. So, it's unlikely they would issue statements about making adjustments to vehicles under production to remedy this situation if, in fact, they weren't. Or, do you not trust them as a company and think they're issuing lies???
     
  5. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Wasn't a problem before. Still not sure if there is a problem now.

    From my perspective, there are 4 groups of owners of the 2010 model: newbys, previously owned 2nd gen, previously owned 1st gen, and previously owned 1st and 2nd gen.

    Most of the "OMG we are going to die" comments come from newbys.

    A couple of the previous gen owners think something is different, but several of them say its exactly the same thing. I tend to put more faith in someone like John1701 and HTMLSpinner who have owned all 3 versions and have a lot of driving experience. So on that basis, I think that most of the cars are probably working as they were designed to.

    But, I now think there might be an issue with some percentage of the 2010's because if I don't consider that possibility, then I have to believe you guys are just a bunch of whiners. And a few people seem credible like RachelSeven who has described the issue in more detail.

    So there is probably an issue with some of the 2010's but it isn't a problem with my car, so I have no shame in not reporting a non-existent problem.

    BTW, I'm going to unsubscribe now, so don't bother responding to this post.

    Good luck to those who have an issue with their 2010.
     
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  6. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    With the level of hysteria being seen on the local TV, they pretty much have to be seen as doing something, whether or not it is meaningful.
    I wasn't aware that Economy Minister Masayuki Naoshima was a Toyota spokesperson.
     
  7. tpfun

    tpfun New Member

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  8. dammitdex

    dammitdex New Member

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    Saw that. Shocking. I'm sure the 'veterans' above can swallow their words now and actually consider that when newbies report serious issues with their Prius, they're not making stuff up.
     
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  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Don't twist what we said.

    We said the situation was rare and there was no need to give into the hysteria. We've been driving Prius for years without incident and know improvements are always on-going. Nothing was dismissed. We just demonstrate greater patience... something required from the very beginning when we had to wait many months just for delivery.
    .
     
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  10. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

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    :deadhorse::yield:

    I am tired
    If my wife has not complained, there is no problem :D
     
  11. DetPrius

    DetPrius Active Member

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    Demonstrating patience is one thing but how many years has this been reported on this site?

    It truly amazes me how many on this site will rationalize the brakes cutting out, even for a fraction of a second. Cars aren't new and the Prius isn't new. As bighouse stated, no vehicle under any conditions should do what the Prius does. I understand the early adopters are willing to bend their expectations and everyone buying any car has complaints after owning and driving but dismissing a braking issue? If we want hybrids to become mainstream (remember, they are NOT right now) issues like this must be resolved. Different is OK if different means equal or better experience but different cannot take us backwards.

    I find this announcement very good news and expect Toyota engineers to resolve it without affecting the performance of the car in a negative way.

    If we wear the Toyota blinders and support Toyota and buy their vehicles no matter what, then we are no better than the GM fans who bought their junk for so long. Personally, I owe nothing to any auto manufacturer, and will buy based on my needs, wants, research, experience, and word of mouth, and will look at all (well, almost all) brands each time I buy. That approach has put me in Hondas and Toyotas the last 25 or so years.
     
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  12. It's a *blue* Prius

    It's a *blue* Prius New Member

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    My wife and I own 2 Gen II Prii - A 2006 and a 2008 (both with identical options, only difference is between the shades of blue).

    My wife is the primary driver of the '06. The braking is rock-solid and the ABS operates as any other car with ABS.

    The '08 is a completely different story. I'm the primary driver of that car, and I experience the "released brakes" condition at least weekly. If I'm applying brakes on pavement that's less than perect, they release themselves, which feels like a lurch forward (in actuality it's just unexpected coasting). This is not the brake "pulsing" that typically accompanies activation of the ABS system; they simply fail to engage. I'm inclined to believe that it's a similar software issue as the Gen III's are experiencing, since our '06 doesn't behave in this manner. This is definitately a valid safety concern and I'm surprised it's only being reported in the '10 models.

    Toyota needs to get with the program and start taking responsibility for their quality issues. However, I'm concerned that there's a cultural barrier that is preventing this from taking place. There's a when saving face through denial far outweighs the embarassment of admission. Toyota has already lost face though its denial; time to step up and recognize it's issues.

    And while they're at this recall thing, how about admitting the HID headlight problems? Otherwise I'm going to have to break down and pay $500 for the driver-side light on my wife's '06.
     
  13. Kenc

    Kenc New Member

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    Last week I encouraged 2010 Prius owners with this brake loss/sudden acceleration experience to contact NHTSA to make a complaint.

    In this way, I hope I contributed to the NHTSA's decision to open up a probe into this potential problem.

    Whether or not there is a serious problem or not, I want Toyota to confront this issue in a straight forward manner.

    I feel more comfortable with the NHTSA looking into this issue as opposed to ONLY hockeydad. Hockeydad may have an opinion and some valid points, but it just seemed so reasonable to me to place this in the hands of actual experts with actual authority to research such issues.

    And why not make complaints now? Why do we have to wait for additional chatter by hockeydad as to whether something is proven, etc. Just get the issue in the hands of the NHTSA (the experts) and continue the chatter later on Priuschat. It made no sense to me to hold off.

    I have no agenda. I just own a 2010 Prius and have experienced this alarming driving experience. I only encouraged others with a similar experience to make complaints.
     
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  14. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Wow...a Coordinated campaign to spread fear and increase complaints netted you 24 additional complaints. And now they officially launch an investigation. You must be so proud.
     
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  15. a1a1a1

    a1a1a1 Member

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    It's not about safety, it's about not getting sued. Financial protection.
     
  16. Kenc

    Kenc New Member

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    Why not move to get an investigation and be cautious? It may be a serious problem. I really don't understand stupidity. And yes, I am proud to be behind such an effort.
     
  17. frobie

    frobie Junior Member

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  18. bighouse

    bighouse Active Member

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    I'm wondering if the fanbois who've dismissed this issue, or called those of us who complained "whiners" "chicken-littles", etc, will also elect to not have their braking system fixed by Toyota?
     
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  19. frobie

    frobie Junior Member

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    Below is the email I sent to Toyota of Watertown this morning and their reply. Let's see what they send me next.
    ----------------------------------------
    Rob, we have seen no failures with these brakes and the situation is being investigated by Toyota.
    We'll let you know if a recall does come of this but at this time I have no additional information.
    I will forward you the latest information I received from Toyota this morning and the customer assistance line is 800-331-4331.

    Thanks for your patience,

    Mike Mason
    - Hide quoted text -

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Rob
    Sent: Thursday, February 04, 2010 9:44 AM
    To: Michael Mason
    Subject: Toyota Prius brakes

    Hi Mike,
    I have seen a recent article
    (Toyota recalling 270,000 Priuses in U.S., Japan - Autos- msnbc.com) saying that
    Toyota has acknowledged an issue with the 2010 Prius brakes. I am
    concerned about this as when I first got my car at the end of July I
    noticed it in the first week and came back to Toyota of Watertown and
    was told that it was not a problem and functioning perfectly. The
    article sums up the exact problem that I mentioned and almost got into
    an accident over:

    When the car moves on a bumpy or slippery surface, a driver can feel a
    pause in the braking when the vehicle switches between the traditional
    hydraulic brakes and the electronically operated braking system, said
    Paul Nolasco, a company spokesman. He credited that pause to the two
    systems in a gas-electric hybrid - the gas-engine and the electric
    motor.

    What is your recommendation to me?

    Regards,
    Rob
     
  20. DeanFL

    DeanFL 2010 owner - 1st Prius

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    VERY SARCASTIC - especially for an apparent "Senior Member of PChat" - and NOT a 2010 owner.

    Guess Toyota feels differently than you, now officially opening a Recall.
     
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