NHTSA Tracking Braking Loss on Prius Hybrids

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by RobertMBecker, Dec 24, 2009.

  1. RoyThePriusGuy

    RoyThePriusGuy New Member

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    Re: How to file a braking complaint with NHTSA

    NHTSA still hangs when I try - now have a call into them.
     
  2. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    To an extent all business is competitive and an "economic war". I think the hearings in Washington are most likely going to result in another wave of overblown media negativity and a certain amount of political agenda being advanced.

    But ultimately I don't harbor any conspiracy theories. Unfortunately for Toyota they had a real problem with their gas pedals. The reality is they DID need to fix them. Now they have made a software change to the brake system in the 2010 and IMO it's taking them far too long to officially announce how they are going to handle it for all those who have purchased earlier.

    Yes Toyota has suffered from a hyper agressive media BUT they also have had real issues that they have had to face coupled with IMO making one bad PR choice after another. The longer they put off announcing what they intend to do about the software update for Pre-January 2010 owners the worse it makes them look.

    Having Toyota apologize for a week about the pedal recall and officially make statements of wanting to reassure customers and putting safety 1st but then changing the software on The Prius braking system and not being ready with a clear, immediate response as to what is going to happen for current owners is just another blunder.

    You can't blame economics, or competitors, or politics for that, that's just Toyota making mistakes.

    I'm sure during the hearing Toyota will be attacked again, which is unfortunate. Americans should realize that in terms of total content Toyota USA uses more North American vendors for vehicle content than most other foreign car companies. So while you think you might be helping American interests if Toyota fails, the truth is you are not, Toyota has huge investment in US and North America and my fear is if they are burned by this, they will reduce their presence.

    I don't think from a PR standpoint, and even in some cases tangibly overall Toyota has handled the recall and the "software" update as well as they should BUT I have no desire to see them fail. Everyone should be rooting for them to have some normalacy return. Business is good for business.
     
  3. PazPrius

    PazPrius New Member

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    Wow!!! "The move comes on the same day that NHTSA began an evaluation of braking problems on the 2010 Toyota Prius hybrid. With the Prius, antilock brakes can fail momentarily while the car transitions between its gasoline and electric motors." I didn't know the brake problem was due to the switch from ice to electric? Ford To Fix Brakes On Milan, Fusion Hybrids - San Diego News Story - KGTV San Diego

    Also why isn't Ford being demonized since they corrected the same issue on the production line and didn't say anythin? The cars were built before Oct. 17, 2009. For models built after that date, Ford fixed the software at the factory to change the feel of the pedal, Deep said.

    But never mind this isn't a Gov't or anybody else conspiracy is it?
     
  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Well perhaps Ford should get more scrutiny about this than they are getting but significant is the fact that while Ford did fix the software at the factory-like Toyota-the difference is, upon announcement Ford is just directly telling Owners we will fix your brakes, I've even read that dealerships already have the new software available.

    I expect Toyota to get to this answer soon, but so far their, we are thinking about our response or how to respond answer is very, very poor.
     
  5. RoyThePriusGuy

    RoyThePriusGuy New Member

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    In a prior HighTech business, I interfaced with Japan business management very often. And went to Japan for extensive business meetings about 15 times.

    My experience with the Japanese, in general is:

    They tend to be:

    -Very clannish
    -Very private
    -Very methodical
    -Very direct in their questioning
    -Very reserved in their answers
    -Very distrustful of American businesspeople
    -Very impatient with behavior unlike theirs
    -Very difficult to "read"
    -Very slow to make decisions (when it's in their best interest)

    This is no surprise that Toyota management is s-l-o-w in their decision to recall the Prius.
     
  6. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I agree that a percentage of this response is probably tied to a difference in culture and approach. But Toyota is global...and I've still been suprised how bad some of their PR decisions have been.

    I offered a post a few days ago (ignored mostly) suggesting Toyota needed to reflect a little "American Bravado" and I still think at some point Toyota needs to stop apologizing every day, and get back to being a Car Manufacturer.

    While Toyota "Redoubles Efforts in Quality Control" I also think they need to think about hiring a new PR firm.
     
  7. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

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    Ah, see what I mean? This isn't just a problem with Toyota or the Prius. It's a problem with any car utilizing this technology. However, if they can find a way to counteract it without harming the efficiency then by all means, go team go! I'm just upset that the ford hybrids aren't catching crap for it too, even though they recognized a problem as well. It's blatant hyper-media bullying.

    You would not believe the hate I have received for voicing myself on these issues. Here's an example (I think the link should work.)

    Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

    She takes us for a drive in her Prius but isn't able to replicate the issue. She admits it's not a big deal and under almost all circumstances the brakes are excellent. However, she jumps waaaay out there and starts talking about wanting reimbursement for a rental and dropping her car off at the dealership and stopping driving it. All for something that prius drivers, and most electric car drivers have experienced since the creation of the technology. It's sort of the modern day media equivalent of being a drama-queen.

    It will be nice to see a fix implemented and hopefully allow more people to adopt these cars and bring our efficiency up!
     
  8. RoyThePriusGuy

    RoyThePriusGuy New Member

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    Oh this is just great news.....in USA Today....IMO Toyota is making this worse but letting the Prius issues drag on and on. Now the press is talking about the cruise control and lighting problems. It's pile-on time....

    Toyota recalls will cost owners in lower resale values - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com

    Feb 05, 2010
    Toyota recalls will cost owners in lower resale values



    Toyota owners could get walloped on their expected resale value over the automaker's alleged safety lapses, whether they own a vehicle being recalled or not.

    That's the verdict of two carefully watched services, Kelley Blue Book and ALG, that make a business out of estimating the value of used cars. For decades, Toyotas have been among the strongest vehicles for resale value. But now, with safety shortcomings in some of the vehicles laid bare, it may become harder to resell their new cars when they go on the used-car market. Residual values could suffer.

    KBB and ALG seem to agree that Toyota's public-relations nightmare, unless somehow miraculously corrected, could result in about 4% to 5% additional depreciation value on the vehicles it currently has on the streets:

    It's not just about the models being recalled. The bad reputation would permeate the entire line. Safety problems could wind up costing Toyota owners a bundle.

    "The potential demand lost as a result of these actions becomes more and more difficult to recover with each passing day," KBB writes in a note this month. "In addition to a drop in consumer demand for Toyota, there is a growing supply of used Toyota vehicles that could put further downward pressure on values...

    All week, the news only seemed to get worse for Toyota as more vehicles got swept up in safety deficiency accusations.
     
  9. georgew

    georgew New Member

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    This isn't about the Prius but rather Toyota and the decisions the company has so far made.

    Ford isn't receiving bad press because they've handled everything incredibly well in contrast to Toyota.

    Consumers now have to wonder what other problems Toyota may or may not be keeping from their customers and that is the problem.


     
  10. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    This must be new behavior on Ford's part, because it doesn't describe my long-ago experience with them. Or with any car of any brand -- four nameplates so far. All of them had plenty of TSBs, none of which were voluntarily disclosed to me.
     
  11. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Ford learned its lessons after the Explorer fiasco. This doesn't mean they don't make mistakes, but they have not publically lied about conversations with the NHTSA, dragged there feet on a safety recall, or blamed customers for not understanding their cars lately.
     
  12. georgew

    georgew New Member

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    Right, this is less about ford and more about Toyota. Attention is on Toyota because Toyota keeps giving us reason to speculate, wonder, talk, question..

    Ford? Not so much. In fact, Ford is semi-brilliant to to offer a solution to their 17,000 customers affected while Toyota keeps us 270,000 waiting while they decide how they want to respond.


     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Ford changed their production software 10 weeks earlier than Toyota, and didn't breath a word about it to existing customers until they saw the same issue biting Toyota on the a$$.

    Absent this Toyota mess, would Ford have ever mentioned it to customers?

    My expectations for auto industry disclosure were set by decades of Ford ownership, and I had no reason to believe GM and Chrysler were any better. Honda and Subaru did raise the bar somewhat, but to nowhere near what many folks are demanding of Toyota today.
     
  14. georgew

    georgew New Member

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    Ford actually notified its dealers of the problem in October... What does this mean? I could of gone to the dealer in October, told him my problem, and he would of known exactly what I was talking about...

    Consumer reports then publishes an article and Ford quickly acknowledges the problem and says hey theres an update for that, come get it.

    I questioned this behavior on my Prius for months..been told it wasn't a problem, Toyota says nothing until Government questions, and I still don't know if I will actually get the update or not.

    two very different approaches from each car maker IMO.


     
  15. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

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    Ugh, yeah now I am officially mad at Toyota. It's not anyone on here's fault. You all have the right to report what you see as a problem. Why the heck didn't toyota react to this faster and quieter like Ford did. They could have fixed this and saved millions they lost from the bad PR.

    :(
     
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  16. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    Wow, I drive an '04 and it's the safest car I've ever driven. Reliable, fun, etc. And the EXACT same drivetrain in later years is "unsafe", "dangerous"? No...just newbies that are crazy. Let's all move on and sell our unsafe cars. Why the [email protected]#$ would you keep such a bad product? I mean, the other 2 million plus owners must be a huge number of unsafe people, driving these death machines. Toyota passes Two Million Hybrid sales | news.toyota.com.au
    And they emit no noise either! Omigod! run to the hills. It's about the saddest thing yet on the frenzied TV news. Why do we make "perceived" "problems" worse? Plenty of "perceived" choices out there for our transportation needs. THAT's the fix. buy something else...that'll show 'em who runs the show.
     
  17. Canyon10

    Canyon10 New Member

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    Very funny! One person thinks his Prius is fine and regards everyone's should be fine as his. I bought an 27" iMac recently and like it without any problem but found many unlucky ones got a flickering screen. I can feel their concern and hope they got a fix or refund.
     
  18. SlowTurd

    SlowTurd I LIKE PRIUS'S

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    what about the high pitch whine when we brake?


    and I'm not talking about brake pad squeal
     
  19. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

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    Haha slow turd. :) That's just the electric motor sound when regenerating. I like it, it sounds spaceship-ey.

    Maybe your ears are more sensitive though. There are louder motors than this though!
     
  20. Airbalancer

    Airbalancer Active Member

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    Is your spouse in the passanger seat :confused: :D
     
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