NIO day summary

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jan 13, 2021.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Nov 25, 2005
    Huntsville AL
    2017 Prius Prime
    Prime Plus
    This video ordinarily covers Tesla but there is a good summary of the NIO day:

    NIO summary starts at 0:53/13:53:
    • These are Chinese only cars ... today
    • NIOET7 as Model S class vehicle for Q1 of 2022
    • 75 kWh, 100 kWh, and 150 kWh solid-state (eyes rolling)
    • expecting 360 Wh/kg
    • 3:40 - Tesla going with a structural battery pack means lower vehicle weight which add range
    • NIO swappable packs can not be structural so the total vehicle mass is larger
    • Battery swap stations are expensive and limited to ~312/day
    • Holds 13 battery slots and one open
    • 6:36 - the swap station foot print is equal to 3-4 Superchargers
    • Supercharger and faster battery speeds will provide similar 12-13 chargers per hour in footprint
    • 6:50 - the 13, fully charged packs can not provide grid balancing and potentially batteries needed in working cars, not sitting idle in a charging station waiting on a car
    • arrive with a 150 kWh pack and get swapped to a 75 kWh pack
    • 7:45 - excellent graphic showing the battery inventory in the station
    • 8:20 - over engineered solution that is not cost-effective
    • 9:04 - begins autonomous driving suite
    • NVIDIA quad board with 7x speed of current HW 3.0
    • 10:11 - Tesla HW 3.0 came in at 72 W which is much less than the NVIDIA quad board
    • Tesla working on HW 4.0 since 2019 leading to much improved performance when NIOET7 arrives
    There is a credibility problem as Tesla has hardware on the road, on example in my driveway. In contrast, NIO is a projected product in 1-2 years in one market, China. BTW, I did try to watch the NIO Day Youtube and even though I don't speak Chinese, the Trevor Milton style was familiar. Happily, they won't be coming to the USA anytime soon.

    Bob Wilson
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Feb 7, 2006
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Other Non-Hybrid
    NIO started deploying swap stations in 2018, and the three models they currently sell already use the same battery format for it. They also have a battery leasing option; Battery as a Service(BaaS) is what NIO calls it, and it is technically not a lease as you aren't stuck with the one pack. Which might be popular, as the cheapest model starts at $54k. Details are sparse in English on how the pricing for this all works out.

    With different rates for different pack sizes, I don't see the company giving someone paying for a 70/75 kWH pack a 100 kWh one. So the reverse isn't likely. Unless the users rate changes with the battery size. Which may be of advantage to some in allowing having to only pay the higher monthly fee during times of longer travel. But then NIO has yearly plans for lower cost. Answers are likely buried in contract fine print. I'm curious on how it works, but not enough to do the work. I'm guessing battery swapping isn't available to those that actually bought their car's battery.

    NIO is also using a wireless BMS system like GM is in their Ultium packs. What they are going might be new to China, but it isn't in the world.

    I have never seen battery swapping working out for personal cars. I am also leery of having my car's battery be used for grid balancing, so don't see NIO's stations having idle packs as a disadvantage. Also never a fan of battery leasing. Early on, it had a financial advantage that helped BEV adoption, but we are approaching the point where that isn't needed.

    Now, if the 150kWh solid state packs are BaaS only, NIO can bring them to market before everyone else, and pull out failing packs before they hinder customers. Sounds like the fuel cell car plan, except solid state batteries already appear closer to being ready. Having packs being abused by customers in larger numbers may give NIO an R&D edge.

    On the abuse front of the current tech packs, that could limited be design and software controls. Then NIO might already have plans for such packs that need to be pulled from auto use.

    NIO - NIO Launches the 100 kWh Battery with Flexible Battery Upgrade Plans
    Nio Presents New 100 kWh Battery Pack And Battery Upgrade Plans
    Nio unveils 100 kWh battery with cell-to-pack design and lets owners upgrade if they want - Electrek
    NIO (car company) - Wikipedia

    PS - Tesla also got out of battery swapping because CARB nixed it for the fast fueling ZEV credits. Tesla may not have truly believed in swapping at the time, but different conditions may have lead to a different outcome. In addition to ZEV credits, more people may have chosen swapping if Supercharging had switched to a fee service back then.
  3. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Jun 23, 2005
    South OC So Cal & Nashville, TN
    2004 Prius
    Bob - remember the fuel-cell lobby trying to glean all the credits for their self by structuring laws that made credits contingent upon fast refueling? And the model S swap station work off the stock Model S? iirc - although the model Y and 3 are not swappable, it's likely the X & S still are - at least until any major design changes. In the meantime, the model S has a 400+ mile range with its roughly 100kwh traction pack