Featured Nissan Leaf 30-kwh battery decline 3 times that of earlier electric cars: study

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Apr 4, 2018.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Nissan Leaf 30-kwh battery decline 3 times that of earlier electric cars: study


    There's a comment from Nissan.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh boy, here come the lawsuits. i hope hill doesn't find out.:cautious:
     
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  3. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Yes, this is very real and not limited to a few 30 kWh packs.

    Our second car is one of these - a 2016 30 kWh Leaf on a 3-year lease started in April 2016. Our battery was replaced under warranty last month.

    We have been tracking these failures and the capacity losses leading to them for a little over a year now on the main Leaf website - 2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses - My Nissan Leaf Forum

    So much for fixing the problem a few years ago with the 24 kWh lizard cell batteries. Hopefully the new 2018 Leaf 40 kWh batteries do not suffer the same fate.
     
  4. Sarge

    Sarge Senior Member

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    Well, we have a 2016 Leaf with the 30kw battery, and 26 months and 35k KM in and we haven’t lost a capacity bar yet. However, if the chart holds true, we likely will lose the first in the next 6 months, since we are under the mileage trend.

    At least it has an 8 year / 160k KM warranty on capacity loss, and a big reason we made the move at the time. Unless my wife’s driving patterns increase somewhat, we will hit the 8 years first. Hopefully the battery wears out around year 7.5.

    Will be keeping an eye on this thread.
     
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  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wonder if it helps to be in canada vs california.
     
  6. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Yes, like the pre-lizard cell batteries in the Leaf, temperature is one factor, so we see the most rapid degradation in warm to hot climates. But even in higher latitudes, the 30 kWh batteries are degrading faster than the lizard cell batteries which were supposed to have fixed the problem.

    Sarge, you will still probably get a warranty battery replacement before 8 years. The bars are not linear with capacity and Nissan chose how this worked for their own purposes. It probably takes about twice as long for the first bar to drop before subsequent bar drops.

    Our battery was replaced after 23 months of use and less than 20k miles.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    does nissan replace with new, or rebuilt?
     
  8. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    They have been replacing every one new. However, the language of the warranty allows them to replace with only enough capacity to get the vehicle up to 9 bars out of 12. For those non-Leaf folks, the battery is replaced under warranty if it drops to 8 bars. Nissan has started rolling out remanufactured units that will be available for purchase out of warranty and at a lower price.

    Some suspect that Nissan will use these units if their vehicle gets to around 8 years when the warranty will expire. Either way, Nissan has just started replacing what will be many 30 kWh batteries over then next 6 years.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    concerning that this issue continues. is it simply the refusal to go liquid cooling, or is there more to it?
     
  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I am sure @hill will ;)
     
  11. iplug

    iplug Senior Member

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    Certainly liquid cooled systems have among the best track records. But it’s complicated.

    My plug in Prius at six years had significantly more capacity (percent remaining) under very similar conditions than our 30 kWh Leaf at 2 years. Both are air cooled. However the plug in Prius has an active thermal battery management system, whereas the Leaf is passive.

    However, the lizard cell 24 kWh battery on the Leaf was also passive air cooled but seems to last about three times longer. So chemistry and how the battery is physically constructed are important too.
     
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  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Lessons learned or lessons forgotten. Always be aware. The next Bernie Madoff, or Custer's Last Stand, or ENRON or 911 etc will otherwise be right around the corner. Remember the lack of resiliency of a Nissan Leaf battey pack.
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    You might also want to hunt down the Leaf forum and find what those folks are doing.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    I got pretty lucky and bought a used 2015 (didn't know I was making such a lucky choice at the time). This year seems to be holding up better than any other. Really sad what is happening with the 30 kWh packs. That doesn't give me much hope for the even bigger packs coming out now. We are at about 23k miles on our Leaf and it is obviously around 3 years old+. We haven't lost a bar yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if it happens any day.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    hope no more;

    Possible Widespread 2018 Traction Battery Quick Charge Problems - My Nissan Leaf Forum
    The poor slobs buying the 40's are scratching their heads as to why quick charging drops off so fast. It's as if Nissan doesn't have any well seasoned owners that already learned (& can explain why) Nissan has programmed for low CHAdeMO rates so quick after plugging in. It's called cooking battery syndrome. Btw - we baby'd our (21kWh usable) Leaf so that the 1st capacity bar disappeared at 24k miles. All down hill after that. Us early buyers had to do a class action just to get a puny pack warranty. Yep, Nissan really knows how to "take care" of those that put their trust in them

    .
     
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  16. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Wow, that's so messed up. Most educated buyers will now be staying away from Nissan but how many unsuspecting ones will buy a Leaf not knowing. So sad.
    FWIW I still think a used Leaf is a great deal for people that only need it for around town or short drives if you can get it around $7 or 8k.
     
  17. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    You think it is actually worth $7.00? ;)
     
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  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Our >80K miles/early 2011 may fetch $3500 .... & if we had a new or rebuilt pack installed ... we'd now have a $4000 car ... maybe. After
    all, we sunk several hundred dollars into leather upholstery when the chintzy cloth degraded.
    Baah it's not too bad, for a low quality beater

    .
     
  19. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Not that you're biased or anything ;)
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It's not bad at all -
    Best ultra short range, quickly depreciating fast golf cart that $32K could buy. Thank you Lord - at least we got $10k in incentives & tax credit dollars back then.
    .
     
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