Nitrogen and Air tires on same car.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by Reaper, Apr 24, 2015.

  1. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    i had a roofing nail on my passenger side front tire. After the tire was repaired the shop which is well known put air instead of Nitrogen because they don't put nitrogen in tires at the shop which I thought they did. I asked them if that would compromise the mpg and/or driving since one tire is now the black sheep. They said it shouldn't. What do you guys think? Should I take it somewhere that has nitrogen and have the tire corrected?
     
  2. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Nitrogen and Air Tires on the SAME CAR!

    Dogs and Cats sleeping together! Apocalypse I tell ya!

    I wouldn't worry about it. There are a lot of threads about the rather often overpriced and gimmick like nature of the whole NITROGEN fill reality.

    Personally? I don't want to be tied to worrying about filling my tires with NITROGEN so using good ol' mostly Nitrogen air is OK with me.

    As long as you're watching the PSI levels of your tires and keeping that balanced? I don't think it matters at all.
     
  3. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    I just found this and it's pretty interesting. I also read the other questions too. I guess it might be a good idea to get the tire corrected.
    Nitrogen in Tires : Information about Nitrogen Tire Inflation News, Benefits, Generator Dealers, Location Finder & More
     
    #3 Reaper, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  4. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Just wondering ... what is YOUR theory on why the mpg would/could/should suffer ???

    Rolling resistance due to the tire "shape" and deformation is the same (provided the psi is the same). I do not think the rubber cares/knows what keeps it inflated.

    The only possible difference is the weight of the tire since it is filled with a different gas ... BUT that would be negligible (I think).

    The claimed advantages of nitrogen filled tires are not fuel consumption related.... (again provided that YOU keep the tire pressure constant which the nitrogen helps maintain better "allegedly" ) ...

    And the cost of $30 (?) per tire is surely not worth it for me.
     
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  5. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Consider the source?

    "The Get Nitrogen Institute".

    Can you say...Sales Pitch?

    Do what you wish, and it's minor enough of an issue and expense that I'd say your peace of mind is worth it either choice.

    BUT in my opinion, I'd be much more apt to just start filling the Nitrogen tires with regular air, than I would worry about swapping the regular air in one tire out for Nitrogen.

    At a regular consumer automobile driving scenario, in the majority of driving environments? I think "air" perfectly viable for keeping the PSI of my tires where they should be.

    Any benefits of Nitrogen Fill, immediately get trumped by the benefit of my being able to monitor and fill my tires at home with my own compressor.

    As you have discovered being committed to Nitrogen Fill can be a PIA.
     
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  6. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    If you insist on paying for N100 instead of N78, you should at least take the green caps off of the valve stems for a couple of very important reasons:

    1. If you take your Prius in for service or a repair, then the green caps are a visual clue that the car's owner is probably pretty gullible.
    They're more likely to try to sell you some OTHER stuff that will help your MPG like throttle body cleaning, transmission flushing, etc.
    Why else would they make them BRIGHT GREEN???

    2. People already make fun of Priuses enough. Black valve stem caps keep people from pointing at your car and snickering when you're parked some place different than Whole Foods or an Apple store.


    Two pieces of advice: (Street Value < $0.02)

    1. Get and use the black valve stem caps. You don't need to worry about removing or replacing the N100 that is in one of your tires to make it match the N78 that's in the other three.
    Trust me.....this will not lead to all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light due to total protonic reversal because....................(wait for it!)............................ because THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE between N78 and N100.

    2. The tire shop that repaired your tire?
    Use them every time that you need tires or tire repair. They're probably pretty honest for not using the N100 scam AND they didn't laugh at you (while you were there) for asking for it.
     
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  7. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    When it sounds too good to be true, the first instinct is usually correct! The atmosphere is 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. So unless you are driving a Airbus A380, Nitrogen in car tires is a moot point!!
     
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  8. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    my theory of why it would/should/couldsuffer would be that the air molecules change do to hot and cold weather. I've checked my tires in previous cars during the heat and cold and it has been different. Also according to several articles I've read regular Air can/could/will/would corrode the tire faster. Working at my cousins auto shop in the past I've seen the inside of a tire that was filled with air and some(not all) had corrosion in the inside, the valve was corroded as well. Tires filled with nitrogen that ive seen never had the same problems and from articles I've read their molecules Change too, but not as a much or as bad, but Imo they probably don't play a huge roll in a tires life, but I am still curious about the effects. Even more so since this is my first car with nitrogen filled tires.

    That's debatable.

    this is very interesting. I never thought of that, but you're still putting the same amount of lbs of nitrogen that you would with Air so the tire should still weight the same I think.

    If it costs 30 per tire my company pays half and even at 15 dollars per tire I will not pay for that. So it will stay with regular air.
     
    #8 Reaper, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  9. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    You make a good point, but even though the atmosphere contains 78% nitrogen which would mean regular air filled tires have 78% nitrogen in the tires it still has the other gasses which do provide some corrosion according to some experts which could be debated.
     
  10. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    Doubtful!!!No offense, but that's your opinion. I'm pretty well knowledgable when it comes to vehicles. I've Been working on them since before I was a teen. I also worked at an auto shop before. And I bought the car from Toyota with nitrogen filled tires. My opinion is if the car came with Nitrogen then maybe it should stay with it.



    Funny how you never really hear them making fun of any other hybrids. To me it's the name that they make fun of. If it was called a Toyota Corolla LB (lift back) or just a Toyota LB or a Scion LB nobody would care. It would just be a regular car that nobody blinks an eye to and they can point and laugh all they want. I've owned regular cars from Ford up to luxury from Mercedes. Lol. Not their car. :) Every car has their good and bad. No car is perfect or better than the other.

    The shop is pepboys and I've been going there for over 10 years. I've never ever had a problem with the shop. They're an honest bunch Imo.
     
    #10 Reaper, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
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  11. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Yeap that is all true BUT ... NO difference whether or not it is air or nitrogen. What you "could" see with regular air vs nitrogen is that cold tire (weather related) psi and driving psi "when the gas in the tire heats up during driving" has a bigger difference mostly due to water vapor ... (so it is not really the air vs nitrogen but the water in the tire which could accumulate overtime see your legit point below). So if you could ensure that the nitrogen used to fill your tire is really dry you would see "something" (but noone gurantees that ...)

    That is right, this is one benefit you would see if you use nitrogen (done correctly see above) however this is NOT related to mpg which was your question .... I believe...


    What is debatable ... let see ... I say the rolling resistance of a tire is independent of what gas is keeping it inflated at a certain PSI. You say what ???


    Even if you would have thought about it, it is a wash as I said. Nitrogen is 3% lighter than air. So maximum you could lighten your wheels by 3% OF the AIR it is filled with. I am generous here but let say the air in the tire is about 1% of the wheels total weight. See my point ?? ... That's what I called negligible (I would not call it "very interesting").


     
    #11 szgabor, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  12. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    None taken...after all you didn't seem to have been offended by mine....which is good.

    If you think that N100 "makes a difference" then more power (or efficiency!) to you.

    In my never to be humbled opinion?
    It does not.

    Good Luck! :)
     
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  13. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    No. I meant (tin foil cap on) that the tire may react different to nitrogen than it does with air. I was responding to you saying the tire may not know the difference. Obviously the tire is not a life form so yes you're correct lol, but the tire may react different over longer periods of time.



    Well it is interesting because you're putting the same amount of pounds in the tire regardless if it's air or nitrogen. So if the tire reacted differently and was " lighter " because of the niteogen that would be interesting.
     
    #13 Reaper, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
  14. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    It's the Internet and its a forum about cars. we are here to discuss about vehicles and other stuff. No harm no foul. If you have something to say and i learn from it then the only thing I could say is " thank you". I also joined this website to learn more about the Prius. :)
     
  15. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    Sorry about the editing and grammar/spelling mistakes. This friggin iPad keeps changing my spelling so I had to edit my posts.
     
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Shouldn't we be talking about N95, not N100? The tire shop can't suck all the O21 out of the tire before filling with Nxxx. And even if they could, O2 and H2O will start diffusing back in to match the outside partial pressures.

    And don't many shops use on-site nitrogen concentrators that produce about N95, rather than use pre-bottled N100?

    So any gap gets even more narrow ...
     
    #16 fuzzy1, Apr 24, 2015
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  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    To avoid green caps I take the black ones off before going in to Costco. The downside: the gaskets in the ones I'm using are probably getting tired. Maybe I'll try asking if they've got any black caps, next time.

    And yeah, my first stop after getting Costco tires with their nitrogen fill is the Chevron station, for a bit of top up. And put the black caps back on.
     
  18. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    what ? are you saying ?

    "... same amount of pounds in the tire ... "

    1. if you are referring to "tire pressure" that would be PSI "pound per square inch ". In that case yes you save 3% of weight of the gas in case of nitrogen.
    2. if you are referring to the "weight" of the air/nitrogen in the tire, that is perhaps a few ounces !!! (not pounds) ... same weight... but nonsensical ...

    and all this supposed to relate to your original question about "compromising mpg/driving" .... guess you are not a big fan of the natural sciences
     
  19. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Toyota filled the tires with air so the Prius could roll off the assembly line. So the dealer removed all the air inside the tire then pumped in pure nitrogen and screwed on green caps? If the dealer just swapped the caps how would you know?
     
  20. Reaper

    Reaper Junior Member

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    lol. You do know what natural science is right? :facepalm: If I misread or misinterpret something then lets go over it. No need for the bashing.

    Reread what was originally posted from the quote. " lighten" the wheel by 3% not increase mpg by 3%. So of course I would interpret this as a lighter wheel. Not an increase in mpg.
    My original question referred to one tire being inflated by regular air and three tires filled with nitrogen. If one tire is filled with air and the other three were filled with nitrogen would it compromise the mpg/driving conditions. Regular air and nitrogen should not react the same way. One might act cooler/hotter than the other. Rubber could react differently with regular air than it does just nitrogen. Temperature could also have a negative or positive effect on the tire depending on which you use. Going over a bump, pothole, vibration, oxidation, condensation, etc could also play a huge roll. So the only way to really find out if it would effect the tire and or driving/mpg, etc would be to just leave the air in that one tire and in the long run see if anything changes. We humans breath in 21% oxygen, but breathing in 100% oxygen can be very harmful and deadly. Tires/driving condition/mpg may have a more positive effect or negative effect with 90%+ nitrogen vs 78% nitrogen (regular air).
     
    #20 Reaper, Apr 24, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2015
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