No more Prius Prime.

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by Salamander_King, Nov 25, 2022.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Prius No More. I just traded in my 2021 Prius Prime Limited and got myself a 2022 Ford Escape PEHV. Initially, I was planning to switch to a BEV this year. The local Toyota dealer was not even taking an order for bZ4X. Tried reserving Subaru Solterra instead. But as you all know, both bZ4X and Solterra releases were delayed. Delayed long enough such that they no longer qualified for the tax credit.

    Well, as much as I wanted to change my daily driver to a BEV, in our household, if I switch my PP to a BEV, our overall gasoline consumption would increase. This is because a BEV would not work for our occasional long out-of-state travels. We would have to use our other car, Pathfinder Hybrid for those long trips if a BEV replaces my PP resulting in a total gas consumption increase.

    For our household, the better choice would be to replace my PP with another PHEV having a longer EV range. Toyota's Rav4Prime was out of the equation due to its availability issue and cessation of a tax credit. Currently, Ford Escape PHEV was the only car that fits the bill to replace my PP which has a longer EV range than PP and is still eligible for the tax credit this year.

    I lucked out by finding an available Escape PHEV on a dealer's lot and after some negotiations, I was able to do almost even trade after the state incentives and tax credit. I did a comparison of the fuel use based on my driving routines using the EPA site simulation. As turned out, even though the Escape would be less efficient than PP on fuel use both for the EV and HV, with my driving routine which is usually longer than PP's EV range of 25miles most of the time but very close to the Escape's EV range of 37miles, my annual fuel cost would increase by only ~$100 at current gas and electricity rate. But, this increase in fuel cost would result mostly due to more electricity costs. The annual gasoline consumption would decrease by ~26 gals.

    upload_2022-11-25_23-9-22.png
    upload_2022-11-25_23-9-53.png
    Also, I am going to try the compact SUV Escape PHEV to take over the job of our second car Mid-size SUV Pathfinder Hybrid. If this works out and we can successfully get rid of the Pathfinder, then our total household gas consumption as well as ongoing automobile-related cost would be reduced. Will have to wait to see how it goes for that endeavor.

    I am very thankful to everyone on this site for all the information and fun discussions about Prius and Prime topics over the years. I have learned tremendously about the Prius and Prius Prime from many of you. Being a convert, I may not be contributing to the Prius/Prime-specific discussions much, but I will hang around for other broader topics I enjoy reading about.
     
    #1 Salamander_King, Nov 25, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    2,282
    1,055
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    What was the price breakdown?
     
  3. prius16

    prius16 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    429
    219
    1
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Good luck with the new Ford Escape PHEV!
    (y)
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  4. JoeBlack

    JoeBlack Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    39
    25
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius PHV
    Model:
    N/A
    I am not sure if you tried bZ4X, but imho it is a really poor car.
    RAV4 PHV is soo roomy, so comfortable and bZ4X is just crammed for driver and especially for people in the back.
    For me, it was a sad experience as I expected much more out of EV SUV.
     
    bisco and Salamander_King like this.
  5. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    1,673
    1,124
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Gonna miss your posts. Good luck.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    2022 Escape PHEV final sale price: +$41k
    Tax, Title, Fees: +$1K
    2021 Prius Prime trade-in allowance: -$32K
    Out-of-door cost: ~$10K
    Projected Fed tax credit: -$7K
    Added bonus points, accessories, and service perks: -$1K

    After the fed tax credit, my cost is about $3K. But with points and free added values, it comes down to ~$2K spending for me. As I stated, I anticipate ~$100/year more on fuel cost compared to the PP, but if we can successfully replace the current duties of our mid-size SUV with this compact SUV, and get rid of our Pathfinder, then our yearly fuel savings would be roughly ~$700/yr on gas alone. Further subtracting the cost of insurance, maintenance, and fees/taxes, I should be able to save enough to cancel out the ~$2K spending in a very short period.
     
    #6 Salamander_King, Nov 26, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
    kennysmith and Gokhan like this.
  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    No bZ4X sighting for me. I don't even know how it feels to sit in it. But after a very short drive back home from the Ford dealer in my new Escape, I can already appreciate the roominess of the cabin and better visibility on the compact SUV. I have test-driven RAV4 Hybrid in the past and felt the same way.

    For me, Escape interior design and materials are better than PP's. The real buttons to control HVAC and Audio, a small non-obnoxious LED screen, matte black plastic dash. Oh, and besides the obvious larger cargo space and higher ground clearance which are what I really wanted on my daily driver, the car comes with a real spare tire. A big plus. I will have to see how far I can extend the EV range and mpg on this car, but anyway I drive it, I should be able to reduce the total amount of gasoline used for our transportation purpose which is a very important and deciding factor for me.
     
    #7 Salamander_King, Nov 26, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
    Mendel Leisk and JoeBlack like this.
  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,473
    5,081
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    42.1/35.3 inches bZ4X

    41.0/37.8 inches RAV4 PHV

    Sounds like the "crammed for driver" was more a matter of the center console, not legroom. As since this is a Prius forum, offering 1.9 more inches of rear legroom than Prius means it is more comfortable. btw, I know someone who owns both a RAV4 Prime and a bZ4X. He says the latter clearly handles better.

    In the end, it comes down to your own personal priorities... like the decision to give the Ford PHEV a try.
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2018
    5,136
    5,031
    1
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
    Congrats, you made it out alive!
     
  10. JoeBlack

    JoeBlack Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2021
    39
    25
    0
    Location:
    Europe
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius PHV
    Model:
    N/A
    QUOTE="john1701a, post: 3303579, member: 410"]42.1/35.3 inches bZ4X
    41.0/37.8 inches RAV4 PHV

    Sounds like the "crammed for driver" was more a matter of the center console, not legroom. As since this is a Prius forum, offering 1.9 more inches of rear legroom than Prius means it is more comfortable. btw, I know someone who owns both a RAV4 Prime and a bZ4X. He says the latter clearly handles better.
    [/QUOTE]

    It was a strange experience sitting in RAV4 and then jumping into bZ4X.
    In bZ the floor was significantly higher, center console was limiting my space, in the back I had trouble fitting my boots through the door opening and while sitting there, my head was touching roof and I was not able to stretch my legs under the seats.
    Handling wise the cake certainly goes to bZ as RAV4 PHV is pretty much a battering ram on wheels :)

    I was simply comparing those two SUV.
     
    bisco likes this.
  11. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,192
    13,654
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Congrats on the new ride! You seem to get new cars about as often as YouTube reviewers get new laptops. :ROFLMAO:

    Hope it serves you well and you'll stick around. I'm not here as much as I used to be since getting the Bolt, but I still like to stop in to see what my old friends are up to.
     
    Merkey and Salamander_King like this.
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I have not seen it myself, so it may be a non-issue, but the lack of a glove box and frunk space in bZ4X and Solterra may be a deal breaker for us. For our daily drivers, we need the maximum storage places I can find in a car. I have not moved back everything I had been storing in the PP into Escape. I don't think there will be any problem, especially now the spare tire is not going back into the car.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Yeah, this was more or less a mandatory swap for me this year. Not that I had anything to complain about the PP, or that we needed a new car. But, I really wanted to switch to a BEV this year. In anticipation of that change, I put all my retirement savings into a post-tax Roth. Without the tax credit to claim, Uncle Sam is going to take it away.

    Well, I will keep this car for at least until the warranty runs out. And by then, I hope there are more affordable BEVs with longer ranges and better charging infrastructures around where we live so that I can go 100% electric.
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    101,126
    45,849
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    congrats sal!

    i am very interested in the escape phev. i hope you will give us continuous updates on your experience.

    i may have missed it above, what is the ev range, mpg, and type of hvac without the engine?
     
    Salamander_King likes this.
  15. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Sure, I signed up for the Escape forum, but it is nothing like Prius Chat in terms of depth of knowledge shared and audience participation level. I may get more feedback quicker on the Escape PHEV comments here. LOL

    The EPA rating is EV range of 37 miles, EV efficiency of 105mpge (=3.11miles/kWh), and HV efficiency of 40mpg. The number is neck-to-neck with Rav4Prime, but aside from missing AWD, at this point Escape is at least $10K cheaper than Rav4Prime with the tax credit. I have to check to be sure, but my understanding is that Escape does not have a heat pump-type HVAC for heating under EV mode. I believe it is very similar to what your Pip has. While the PP's heat pump was super efficient, for my use case the heating capability of the heat pump was not adequate. If I needed to turn on the heat, I almost always had to start the engine anyway. So, I don't think I will miss that feature on Escape.

    upload_2022-11-26_11-38-57.png

    The car had no charge when I picked it up. I drove it back from the dealer all on HV. Overnight charging on L1 EVSE provided from empty to full charge took ~10 hours to complete. And it took 13.4kWh at the wall. That was more than I was expecting for the 14.4kWh spec traction battery. That means there is only a 7% buffer for the battery. :eek: If this is true, that would be another reason I probably will not keep this car longer than the warranty period.

    upload_2022-11-26_10-25-22.png

    One thing I already like about Escape over Prius Prime is the charge port. No cap to fiddle with, very well-lit LED light. And I think I can enable the Charge-Now or Charge-Schedule with the push of a button... I have to check that functionality on the manual though.

    upload_2022-11-26_10-28-7.png
     
    #15 Salamander_King, Nov 26, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2022
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    19,193
    9,612
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Keep in mind you are measuring the total consumption being drawn for the charge. There is the charger and EVSE overhead, which will be higher than the PP simply because of the longer charger time. Then the Escape likely is more proactive when it comes to heating the battery. I haven't dug into the specifics, but it is a liquid thermal management system that likely does more than keep the battery above freezing.

    As for replacing the Pathfinder, the Escape might have a small tow rating to keep in mind.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2015
    10,598
    8,494
    0
    Location:
    New England
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    That's good to know. I will see how the full charge kWh will change over time. My experience with three PPs was that the very first full charge took substantially more than later full charge sessions. Someone speculated that may be due to the battery conditioning procedure since the battery pack sat for a long time without being charged. I don't know what was the manufacture date of my vehicle, but it did not sit at the dealer's lot. It had virtually 0 miles on the odometer when I test-drove it. Unless they do a test charge on the traction battery before shipping out a new vehicle, the EVSE I connected last night was probably the very first electrons flowing into the pack.

    Yeah, IIRC, Escape PHEV has 1500 lbs towing capacity, which is half of what Pathfinder Hybrid. Unfortunately, the new Escape did not come with towing package, so, if I decide to go that route, I would have to install the towing hitch. Not sure how expensive that would be. Our Pathfinder Hybrid already has a towing package installed although I have never towed anything on it.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    19,193
    9,612
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Isn't the general nature of Li-ion that they need to go through some charge and discharge cycles before they reach full capacity.
    My old Ranger came with a 4 pin trailer plug installed, and it didn't have a tow package I was aware of. So the Escape might easier to do than some other cars. If we are talking about just moving stuff that fit in the Pathfinder, but not the Escape, you won't need a heavy duty set up.

    I usually end up at etrailer when looking at towing equipment.
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    2,282
    1,055
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Congratulations!

    A 2023 Prius Prime SE with a $30,000 MSRP would have cost you $4,000 less even without the federal tax credit, with faster 0–60 mph and a higher mpg, higher mgpe, longer range and a lot more whistles and bells though. But it looked like you wanted a change.

    Since you are married, you won't be able to downsize to a single car, perhaps except for briefly.

    My crystal ball into the future: You will trade in the Pathfinder to a 2023/2024 Prius Prime SE, and the Escape will become your wife's car. ;)
     
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    2,282
    1,055
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    LOL I just read this, and now I have to update my predictions in my previous post, seeing that you're already unhappy with the lithium-ion battery and as I can't imagine you driving a bright red car for too long.

    My crystal ball into the future: You will trade in the Pathfinder Escape to a 2023/2024 Prius Prime SE, and the Escape will become your wife's car the Pathfinder will remain as your wife's car. ;)

    Note: The 2023 Prius Prime has also got rid of the captive corded EV-jack cap and replaced it with a built-in cap inside the lid, perhaps somewhat similar to that in the Escape, albeit it looked more like a cap than a pad.
     
Loading...