No Way to Change MPH to KPH on New 2016 Model Three

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Prius44, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,009
    10,612
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    I wonder why they could not install a speedometer part & software for the later 2016 Prius. That would resolve the issue, I would think.
     
  2. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Three guesses...
     
    RCO likes this.
  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,009
    10,612
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    If the printed manual they received with the car shows how to change the units then the car is defective and must be repaired. If this is presented as a safety issue then lemon laws could kick in.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I agree, but so far (about 18 months now?) it looks like customer satisfaction, safety, takes a back seat to the bottom line: they're hoping it'll blow away?
     
  5. ATHiker

    ATHiker Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2010
    618
    542
    0
    Location:
    Massachusetts
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    WRT safety, I am thinking if just 100,000 owners drove an average of 10 miles to an from thier dealer to get this issue fixed -- that would be a million miles of driving -- those extra mils on the road would be responsible for more accidents than this particular "safety issue" ever could be.
     
  6. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    They could repair it by giving you the updated manual, though, which says that the feature isn't on some cars.
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    It's funny how "progress" can have sand-pounding consequences: this simply wouldn't have happened with an analogue dial-style speedo: the dual units would both get printed, nothing to it.

    I do wonder if there's a legal obligation, to provide both displays? At this point I'm guessing a legal challenge is what it'd take; they haven't budged so far.
     
  8. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    FMVSS 101 requires that speedometers be designated in either MPH, or MPH and km/h.

    CMVSS 101 requires that speedometers be designated in either km/h, or km/h and MPH.

    So, at the time of manufacture and sale, the vehicle is legal for the country it's sold in.

    In addition, for a Canadian entering the US as a non-resident, they can import a vehicle into the US, in conjuction with their arrival, for up to one year for personal use, without complying with any of the FMVSS or EPA regulations. So, a Canadian vehicle locked to km/h is legal to be operated in the US by a Canadian visitor.

    Conversely, for an American entering Canada as a visitor, passing through to another country, or under a work permit or student visa, they can operate a vehicle for personal use that does not meet the CMVSS for the duration of their visit or their permit/visa. So, a US vehicle locked to MPH is legal to be operated in Canada by an American visitor.

    IANAL, but that should work, at least.
     
    fuzzy1 and Mendel Leisk like this.
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    You're probably right, but searching both the above pages I couldn't find the word "speed".

    FWIW, the last moving truck rental I did (here in Canada) was a "Budget", and all their trucks had US plates (forget which state, Utah?), and the speedo's were in mph. I think there was some sorta conversion decal stuck on. I mainly used braille method, lol.
     
    #109 Mendel Leisk, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  10. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The FMVSS 101 link should link directly to page 8 of the PDF, a table of requirements, showing the speedometer requirement.

    The CMVSS 101 link only goes to the main CMVSS, you'll have to expand CMVSS 101 yourself, and then search for speedometer.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,009
    10,612
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    They could only do that if they framed it as a recall with a convincing reason. Since that feature was on the older models and quietly added back in February 2016, they would have a hard time justifying a documentation recall instead of added the expected feature. The could limit the recall to border states, but some of us in Virginia drive to visit family in Canada.
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    As far as I know, Canadian cars (with convenetional speedos) have always had a smaller inner circle with mph.

    I lay a lot of the blame for screw-ups like this on the advent of digital dashes, screen displays and the like. They're like spreadsheets: they're great, but when something goes wrong, it really goes wrong, and can be hard to detect.

    Nother factor: 4th gen was rushed AND behind schedule. Due to last minute cosmetic design changes? Maybe real-world testing got short-changed?
     
  13. FF/Medic

    FF/Medic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    73
    28
    0
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Why should ToyotaPrius owners spend $300 and have the inconvenience of waiting at a Toyota dealer to switch between MPH and KPH? I live in a border state with Canada. Commuters between the Canadian or Mexico border would not want to spend days in a Toyota dealership five to ten times each month and pay for thousands of dollars in unneeded Toyota technician time. As this "fix" to the speedometer issue would make the Prius noncompliant with US vehicle safety regulations, this does not appear to be a valid solution to this Prius problem.
     
    dziadek1818 and kithmo like this.
  14. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    However, it's legal to operate the vehicle in Canada with MPH on the speedometer if you're not moving to Canada.
     
  15. FF/Medic

    FF/Medic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    73
    28
    0
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Safety first. Our corporate safety manager will not allow non-compliant vehicles to be operated. Industrial safety people are concerned about employee safety when operating a motor vehicle even when Toyota does not care about this safety issue.
     
  16. FF/Medic

    FF/Medic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    73
    28
    0
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    The Toyota dealers I visited to repair my Prius have told me they are not allowed to document this issue because the Prius owner would then have proof of repair attempts of the Prius speedometer problem.
    A link to the 2016 Prius owners manual for vehicles built before March, 2016 is here: https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/om-s/OM47A29U/pdf/OM47A29U.pdf

    On the bottom of page 140, is the documentation for the MPH to KPH. In the owners manual delivered with the vehicle, an asterisk was added to refer to "if equipped" on page 141.
    Before purchasing my vehicle, I read every page of the 800-page owner's manual. There was no clear and conspicuous disclosure that Toyota changed the on-line owners manual when they added an asterisk at the bottom of page 140 of 800 pages to indicate that Toyota deleted the advertised MPH to KPH feature.

    Not allowing Toyota dealers to document the speedometer issue and not providing a clear and conspicuous disclosure that a change was made to the Toyota owner's manual when Toyota deleted the selection of MPH to KPH on some 2016 Toyota Prius vehicles, I believe is an unconscionable and deceptive trade practice.
     
  17. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    As you've been told multiple times in this thread, document that you had visited the dealer with photographic proof, even if they won't write a repair order, and attempt to go through the lemon law procedure.

    That will force them to do something, even if it's actually buying your car back, and then you buy another one.

    I've also mentioned a lemon law attorney in your state, that is aware of how to solve this specific issue, of a dealer refusing to write a repair order for a problem.
     
    kithmo, fuzzy1 and Mendel Leisk like this.
  18. FF/Medic

    FF/Medic Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2016
    73
    28
    0
    Location:
    Ann Arbor
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    I have attempted to use your advice. More than one lemon law attorney in this state will not take a case unless there are four written repair orders. Photographing the dealer service bay is not acceptable proof of attempted repair to them.

    This is the same behavior that Toyota used to cover-up their fatal unintended acceleration problem from a few years ago. Read more: Toyota to Pay $1.2B for Hiding Deadly ‘Unintended Acceleration’ - ABC News
     
  19. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    39,329
    27,979
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I wonder what the numbers are, ie: how many cars are involved, and how much per car to fix? I'm sure someone has run those numbers, and said yup, let's just ignore it.
     
  20. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    1,366
    1,453
    0
    Location:
    Newark, OH, USA
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Including the lemon law attorney that specifically gave that advice to the public?

    Also note that Michigan allows a party to a conversation to record it, so you can record a dealer's refusal to work on an issue. There's also trying multiple dealers, to get a better chance of getting a repair order, especially if you play dumb and just say you can't get it switched.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.
Loading...