Non-hybrid cars that give good fuel economy (combined MPG)

I so wish we had your choices here in the US.

 

I wonder why. Oh, wait

To summarize: diesels do not replicate these numbers 'real world' -- but that's OK. Hybrids do not either, so they are excluded.

No bias

 

Maybe bias in their reporting, but they were using official manufacturers figures. The Prius figures are 72.4 mpg UK and 92 g/km. They weren't using PLUG IN hybrids as their official figures are nonsense depending on how long you're on electric or not. Traditional hybrids don't get anywhere near the top ten though.

The cars in the link got over 83 mpg and g/km figures into the low 80's g/km ratings. (Prius 92g/km).

So yeah, maybe the magazine is biased (aren't they all?), but the figures are there to show.

Next?

 

By the way Grumpie, is that a new model ?
I downloaded the 308 brochure from the Peugeot UK site
http://www.peugeot.co.uk/media/peugeot-308-prices-and-specifications-brochure.pdf

82 grams CO2/km is an impressive result, although I do not know anything about the car in general. What improvements explain the jump in fuel economy ? Certainly not the Euro6. It will be interesting to find out if the improvement in the cycle results carries over to driver experience.

My first car was a Peugeot 204, some few years ago.

 

No 'maybe' about it.
Bias is not equal, and you picked a doozy. Then you jumped face first. I think you need a reminder in your scheduler: "Should actually read before posting,"

 

The facts of their list, rather than their website, was the reason for quoting.

As you pointed out above, the specs of the Peugeot are very impressing; 97 mpg Highway rating with 91 combined.

Is Autocar would of my favourite magazines/websites? Nah. Are the stats on the vehicles they quoted correct? Yes.

SageBrush, you should get a job in politics the way you can twist things. You're concentrating on the bias of the websites comments rather than the (correct) stats I was refering to. Nice try

 

With the increase in CAFE requirements we might see more economical manuals. Especially when paired with a small turbo. The 1.8L and 1.4 turbo available in the Sonic produce near identical peak power and torque numbers. The low end torque of the turbo allows a sixth gear to be added to the transmission. It is a speed actually geared for efficient highway cruising.

 

Actually, all I said with regard to the actual data was that the Peugeot result is impressive.

It is true that I have rubbed your nose in your spin, but you deserve it for writing

• No hybrid in the top 10 as if it meant their carbon emissions did not make the grade when in fact they were excluded from the comparison out of bias; and
• Writing that the junk website you linked to "may be" biased when I pointed out the facts of how the list was made, and then trying to suggest that the obvious bias is similar to any other source.

Take your medicine and learn from your error. Otherwise you just may come off as more foolish.

 

How was I foolish offering details of cars that get over 80 mpg compared to the Prius rating of 72? It's a thread about non hybrid cars that get good fuel economy?

Very strange.

 

Lexus CT200h is also rated 82 g-CO2/km. Yaris Hybrid is even slightly better at 79 g-CO2/km.

But these didn't make the report because:

 

To repeat.

The threads title is NON HYBRID cars that give good fuel economy.

That's why those two cars were not quoted. Jeese. How hard is it.

 

The article didn't explore CO2 emissions at all, but was looking at fuel efficiency. They should have included hybrids, but didn't because, "hybrid cars that rarely return anything close their official economy figures in real-world driving." We can fight with them over that is true or not for UK roads and drivers.

However, the numbers they used were official window stick numbers, not their track results. With the lowest of their list being 85.6mpg(is that imperial?), and the Prius rated at 72mpg, chances are the CT200h and Yaris hybrid didn't have an official number to challenge the cars on their list. Hybrid or not.

GC, you have to understand. Regardless of thread title or forum subsection, everything here is about the Prius.

 

Yes, how hard is it when, in PriusChat, you take this unjustified dig:

... and then bring up diesels that beat Prius CO2 emissions:

... and then don't want me to respond with hybrids that match or better those diesels?

 

Please don't forget that 80-mpg-diesel is not an improvement, in carbon emissions or fossil fuel consumption, over 72-mpg-petrol. Though they are very very close, that petrol number is really a couple tics better than that diesel number.

 

Regardless all the bickering, I still wish we had some of these options. With average mpg for new in the US still in the mid-20s, better is still better.

 

Apples to oranges. Those 'better' cars in Europe are small and horribly under powered by Merkin redneck standards.

Try heading over to a diesel fan forum and asking people there how much they keen for diesel econoboxes with 0-60 times of around 12 seconds*. There is no conspiracy here: Peugeot does not market in the US because they do not think it would be profitable. Same for the other companies. It is however also true that in general European diesels could not meet US emissions standards. That changes with Euro6. The other main obstacle to diesels in the US is the fuel cost premium.

Grumpy likes to think that diesels survive on their own technical merits in Europe, and specifically in the UK. That seems to be more true today than before but watch what happens if Europe decides to tax diesel fuel more than petrol to account for the higher volumetric carbon emissions. I think the UK is something of a test case here since their company car tax is based on grams CO2/km.

*The world of diesel cars has a trade-off that is different than petrol cars because of the heavier engines and more NVH. Of great fuel economy, acceleration, and refinement, diesel consumers get to pick any two.

 

When I bought my TDI in 2006, 40 "real mpg"was better than anything but the hybrids (Prius and Insight) in the US and diesel was $0.20 cheaper than gas. That was why I made the purchase. Now it is $0.20 more expensive per gallon after the ULS roll out, and I still have trouble finding a "regular car" that gets 40 mpg combined "real mpg", gas or diesel. So I am still equal to or ahead of the curve with the price increase and this 9 year old car.

While I am happy with my 2010 Prius, I do think the American choices for better mpg should not be limited to Hybrids and EV's if other choices are available. You want to concentrate on pollution, but I think those examples linked by Grumpy, and the reference to my comments, already comply with Euro6. By the way Peugeot is coming back this year according to rumor control. PSA PEUGEOT CITROËN BACK IN THE USA SOON ? - FCIA - French Cars In America

"Those 'better' cars in Europe are small and horribly under powered by Merkin redneck standards."

I hate to tell you this, but most US made "economy cars" are small and horribly under powered. By the way, associating diesel to "merkin rednecks" is like associating Prius to to gay democrats...you should know better than to practice what you preach against.

There is nothing wrong giving the US market more choices with fuel efficient vehicles and I "suspect" lobby money has more to do with the availability of referenced vehicles than the epa or profit. There is no real profit in Zero Emission cars, but they loose more money if they loose that market per law. There is more than one solution to "better", so there should be more than one choice. I guess we all have different opinions and respectfully, that is one of mine.

 

What curve ?
My prius will be 10 years old this year. It averages FIFTY mpg combined between my wife and I driving, , and it's fuel is 15-20% less expensive than diesel. My car pollutes a small fraction of yours -- perhaps 5-10% of the major pollutants. Total repairs+maintenance to date is less than one penny a mile.

I sure am glad I did not make your choice, 'ahead of the curve' labeling notwithstanding.

 

I had a Mercedes A180 CDI as a rental in Norway last week and was rather impressed. It's a VW Golf-ish sized hatch that could sit 4 adults reasonably comfortably. The diesel had plenty of torque to move the car with authority at almost any rpm and would often run at 1500rpm or less on the highway. This was a 6-speed manual equipped car with snow tires. I hadn't thought much of the fuel economy side of things until a couple of hundred kilometers of driving when the gas gauge was still pegged at full. I started poking through the settings though and found why - over the 3000km since the trip meter had been reset, it had averaged 4.4l/100km. (53mpg) For us, it was using 3.8l/100km (62mpg). Can't complain about that!

 

He has pointed out multiple times that diesel in the UK does cost more than petrol. We think of Europe as one market, but there are regional differences.

What I have gleaned of the vehicle tax laws in Europe is that it is 'bin' based, and not tied to a car's specific emission level. Anyone that emits under 100g/mile receive the same perks under the law.

We will be seeing more diesel options in the US with the new CAFE limits. Audi and BMW have already expanded their diesel options. The Cruze, Ram 1500, and Grand Cherokee also have a diesel option. The Nissan Titan, and likely Toyota Tundra, will be getting a Cummings. Nissan is working with Cummings on a smaller diesel that is planned to have lower emissions than the Prius.

The roadblock for economical diesel car is the cost of diesel here. You explain that it is the cost per mile that really matters until you are blue in the face, but most will just see the price posted on the pump.