Not saying I'd prefer a nanny state, but...

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by pilotgrrl, Nov 20, 2017.

  1. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2017
    889
    1,791
    0
    Location:
    Chicagoan in TX
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    hkmb and RCO like this.
  2. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    8,464
    10,347
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Other than the awkward feeling of driving on the other side of the road, I LOVED driving in the Yorkshire countryside and on the highway. Drivers were wonderfully predictable. Here, the only thing predictable is stupidity, not the way the stupidity will show itself. Having consistently enforced traffic laws would save countless lives in this country. (He says as he prepares for a 900+ mile drive tomorrow, mostly on I-75.)
     
    hkmb, Mark57, pilotgrrl and 2 others like this.
  3. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,406
    10,987
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You driving 20 mph in the left lane like the proverbial clueless Prius driver? :eek: :LOL:
     
    jerrymildred likes this.
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    6,144
    5,147
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Tell you what.....

    Post a new thread in any part of the forum saying that you like red-light-cameras, and it will tell you everything you need to know about American driving.

    Even something as starkly simple as "stop when the light gets to red!" gets to be very complicated and politically rancorous.

    Me?
    I like red-light-cameras just fine (pun almost unintended) but for people in the romper-room next door (FhoP_P) they might be wont to point out that it's a slippery slope that will lead to a bleak dystopian future of mandatory state ID, camera's at every public intersection sniffing license plates and faces, compulsory voting, speed cameras, black boxes and GPS receivers in every car.....etc.

    Utopia ?
    Dystopia?
    YMMV.

    For people outside the Romper Room, I'd tackle it one issue at a time and see if they can wiggle that first brick out of the wall with the red-light cameras, or maybe automated speed enforcement.

    Remember....people in other parts of the world think about individual versus collective freedoms VERY differently, which is why at least one person reading this thread, on this small forum (though certainly not me) will have a piece of tape over their computer's web-camera. :D
     
    RCO and jerrymildred like this.
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    40,785
    29,265
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    One thing that's gone COMPLETELY by the way around here is any obligation to come to a stop at stop signs or red lights, in particular, for drivers intending to turn right (in North America for example) onto a main street from a side road. As well, no one seems to have a clue about the reasons for this regulation.

    Deep breath...
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,406
    10,987
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Are you saying the law has been changed, or it is being ignored?
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    40,785
    29,265
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    The latter.

    Yesterday, coming through a green light intersection in heavy rain, had to do a heart-stopping half-stop half-swerve, due to some joker-who-knows-better, on my right, rolling his stop, seeing me, stopping halfway into my lane.

    Any pedestrians stepping off the curb to his right, had better be on their toes, because such jokers are completely oblivious to them, just concentrating on their rolling stop into traffic, looking left.

    I think one reason it's rampant is because it's hard to enforce, and so prevalent.
     
    #7 Mendel Leisk, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    pilotgrrl and Prodigyplace like this.
  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,019
    7,556
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    The article missed a major point. It is worse than this. The U.S. fatality rate, per distance traveled, hit a minimum about three years ago, and has been rising very significantly ever since.
     
    pilotgrrl likes this.
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    6,144
    5,147
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Red lights regs are the easiest laws on earth to enforce in the physical world.
    If you cross the little white line when the red light is illuminated, then you're guilty!!!

    No need for gun-toting, sworn LEOs to figure out that one in a world where people drive internet connected, licenced and registered vehicles through intersections where there are wired cameras!

    However, (comma!) in a 'free' nation there is still this archaic idea that such regulatory efforts are not worth the price, and so we accept blood on the asphalt in exchange for the freedom to roam at will.

    Nothing wrong with that at all............................until some cell phone queen turns you or a loved one into an organ donor..... :eek:
     
    jerrymildred, pilotgrrl, RCO and 2 others like this.
  10. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2016
    3,709
    5,166
    0
    Location:
    Cornwall
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    @kithmo will know whether stupid driver's in Yorkshire are forbidden from the roads, but they certainly are not elsewhere. UK's roads with most stupid driver's are along the M4 corridor between London and Carmarthen, but ALL UK motorways (like Interstates) have about 10% lunatic driver's.

    Bearing in mind we drive on the other side from you, in UK there is no filtering left through a red light UK's there is a separate lamp signalling it as safe to do so. Some driver's will always chance it, perhaps IQ related. (n)(n)(n)

    Hmm, see above reply to ETC(SS)
     
    #10 RCO, Nov 20, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2017
    kithmo, hkmb, jerrymildred and 2 others like this.
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,711
    7,249
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Don't have a problem with red light cameras if properly signed.
    The complaints come about when a municipality reduces the timing of the yellow lights at those intersections with the cameras for increased revenue. In some cases accidents increased because of people stopping short getting rear ended.
     
    srellim234 likes this.
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,019
    7,556
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Increased rear-enders from shortened yellows are another sign of drivers following too close and being distracted.

    But shortened yellows are also a form of fraud, and should be broadly challenged. I'd also challenge or appeal cases where timing technically meets state minimums, but is shorter than federal standards.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    15,711
    7,249
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Keeping the camera caught penalties low makes fighting them viewed as a hassle.
    Perhaps that will be my calling in retirement.
     
    RCO likes this.
  14. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,626
    1,578
    0
    Location:
    Milpitas, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Become a nanny state or just enforce seat belt laws?
    4 Reasons the U.S. Trails the World in Road Safety - CityLab
    Perhaps it starts with movies and television showing actors put on seat belts.
    Seat Belt Use on TV | PriusChat

    Or maybe Americans drive twice as much per person than a Britain? 15,500 km vs 8300 km per year. You just have to accept the fact that the death rate will be higher unless you offer other forms of transportation such as self driving or ... dare I say it... convenient public transportation.
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,019
    7,556
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I am retired, and haven't yet created any opportunity to deal with citations from red-light / speed / school-zone / school-bus cameras.

    (As for jury duty, that was a different matter. As in, why does having a single house obligate me to serve in two separate city courts? And why does city #2 have such harshly restrictive rescheduling rules compared to county and city #1 courts were I have already served? And rules that conflict with the State Court of Appeals jury rules? After multiple go-rounds, city #2 finally offered a week that fit my original 'open availability' calendar -- then cancelled court that week.)
    That is already divided out. The figures are 'per billion vehicle miles traveled'.
     
    RCO likes this.
  16. mmmodem

    mmmodem Taste Tester

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2011
    2,626
    1,578
    0
    Location:
    Milpitas, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    I'm feeling stupid today. How does "per billion vehicle miles traveled" get "per licensed driver" divided out?

    I'm taking this quote as it is.
     
    RCO likes this.
  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,019
    7,556
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Sources:
    U.S. Traffic Deaths Rise for a Second Straight Year - The New York Times
    USDOT Releases 2016 Fatal Traffic Crash Data | NHTSA

    And a slight correction -- the first half of this year saw a very slight decline in traffic deaths, though not nearly enough to counter previous year-over-year increases:
    http://www.nsc.org/NewsDocuments/2017/Fatality-estimates-June17.pdf
     
  18. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    14,019
    7,556
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    See the charts. Relevant disclosures highlighted.

    Exhibit A, from the NYT link:

    traffic-deaths-country-NYT.GIF

    Exhibit B, from your Citylab link:
    traffic-deaths-country-citylab.GIF
     
    RCO and Mendel Leisk like this.
  19. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,231
    1,559
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Interesting article. Yes, there seems to be something 'special' about this American desire for freedom. Personal freedoms are taken to such an extreme that public safety is threatened, and personal freedom is ironically compromised as well. I've discussed this with a few rabid freedom-lovers, and the most telling quote so far is "No, we're talking about MY freedom." Maybe it's part of the education system, or just part of the patriotic psyche, but Freedom! seems to mean something different in the USA. Logic and reality, or 'evidence-based' as the article phrases it, takes a distant second to the alluring ideals. I thought it was mostly guns this applied to, but I see now it applies to cars, too.
     
    RCO and hkmb like this.
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    6,144
    5,147
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Gee.....
    How 'bout that, huh?

    Every now and then you can statistically prove something that anyone who has ever been to the US and any other country on earth already knows through common sense.

    In most nations other than the US, you have to actually have to know how to drive a car in order to get a license.
    In the United States, you just have to have the right number of candles on your birthday cake....like (wait for it!)....................14 in one US state!!!
    I've held licenses in numerous states, and in some.......it's shockingly easy to pass the [sic] "written" multiple guess test.
    And......
    Even if we join the rest of the human race in requiring that people on public roads actually be knowledgeable in the driving task, there's still other work to do...... ;)
    We're going to continue to be a major supplier of human organs until somebody out there realizes that "distracted" driving is actually much worse than drunk driving.
    Drunks, you see, can at least have the miserable excuse of chemically induced impaired judgement.
    People who diddle with their electronics just don't give a rats about their fellow humans to a greater or lesser degree.
    (Full disclosure: I've done so myself, although I do try very hard to just listen to audio while driving.)

    I've seen IN THIS FORUM people try to play movies on their car radios so that they would not be as bored on their morning commutes.

    See you out there..... ;)
     
    RCO and pilotgrrl like this.
Loading...