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Not seeing EV savings

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by Kebisho1, Apr 12, 2022.

  1. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    For the Prius Prime in my location (MA) I am not seeing electric versus gas savings. My last electric bill was $20.20 for 48 kWH. That equates to $0.42 per kWH. Prime battery is 8.8 kWHs. Charge electric cost would be $3.70 to drive 25 miles. Gas is considerably cheaper way to go. Am I missing something? Perhaps it is better to use public charging sites where electric cost is much cheaper.
     
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  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Paying peak pricing for electricity is not a good choice. Check with your provider.

    $0.44 per kWh is peak for my service. $0.13 for non-peak. $0.077 for overnight discount.
     
  3. phlack

    phlack Junior Member

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    Are the public chargers cheaper? For me, they aren't, but I'm only paying about $.11/kWh here in Florida.

    For me, the public chargers are a rip-off.
     
  4. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    I spoke with my electric company (national grid). It states it does not have peak and non-peak. Just one rate.
     
  5. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    The kWh rate is ~ $0.15, but then you add the distribution, transmission, energy efficiency, EV car, etc, etc, etc charges per kWh.
     
  6. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  7. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    Wow!! National Grid in MA just confirmed it. As of today, it would cost more to drive my car in electric mode versus hybrid. $3.70 cents of electricity to drive ~25 miles. Unbelievable.
     
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  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have been driving electric in ma for ten years. it has almost always been much more expensive than gasoline.
    who sold you the bill of goods 'electric is cheaper'?

    it's all about local prices. same with carbon, depends how your electrons are generated.

    the one positive of high electric rates is solar payback. worth looking into.

    i hope you didn't buy a prius to save money :unsure:
     
  9. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    Not specifically to save money. The MA rebate and federal tax credit was nice though. And the hybrid mpg is fantastic. I found a cheaper public charger ($0.16 per kWh versus $0.42 per kWh residential rate).
     
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  10. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I am a Penny pincher so this might not apply to most of you. When we bought our PHEV we did exhaustive research on Return On Investment for this purchase before buying one. Electric rates, gas rates, tax incentives, maintenance cost, installing and buying a level 2 charging station were all factors we included in our calculations before buying a PHEV.

    Here is an example of a Calculator available for some of this information, there are better ones
    Alternative Fuels Data Center: Vehicle Cost Calculator (energy.gov).

    As some have mentioned having an electric vehicle in some areas of our country is a considerable cost up and more a political, transportation preference or environmental statement rather than an economic decision.
     
    #10 John321, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
  11. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    If you are really paying $0.42/kWh, then you are correct that you are not saving by driving a PP on EV mode. You should have done your math before buying the PP. But, chances are, your electricity cost is slightly lower than what you calculated. Your monthly usage of 48kWh is extremely small. If you are being charged for a basic connection fee type fixed fee per month, then chances are your /kWH is proportionally higher due to your low usage.

    Say, if your fixed fee is $10/mo no matter how much you use the electricity. Then out of $20.20 monthly bill, you are paying almost 50% for the fixed fee. If your usage is like an average house ~583kWh, then $10 fixed fee will be a very small proportion of your total electric bill.

    Also, note that the PP actually uses only 6.1-6.8kWh of electricity from the wall for a full charge. Combine that with the actual EV range of PP which can be as long as 35 miles (not 25 miles), now you can get a bit better EV cost. With 6.5kWh full charge and 35 miles EV range, you are getting $2.75 for 35miles on EV which is about equivalent to 60 mpg on $4.71/gal gas. It still costs more to drive an EV than HV, but not so bad. For the last 5 years, I was driving my PP knowing EV cost more than HV because the gas price was super cheap compared to our high electricity rate. For the first time, the gas price got high enough that EV is cheaper for me now. I am happy now whenever I can drive on EV mode that not only that I am not producing CO2 as I drive but also saving as I drive.
     
    #11 Salamander_King, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
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  12. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    You need to check your math. Are you paying a separate electricity bill for an independent panel for your car only? Why are you laying the entire cost of base fees on the car's operating cost? Your home doesn't use electricity? I believe your state gives you a break on electricity; if you register you car with your utility company. You also didn't mention how may miles a kilowatt hour your currently consuming. A key measure to determine which is more efficient - gas vs electricity.

    My conservative calculations, for my driving style/commute is $0.31/KWh for breakeven @ $4/gal of gas. Of course I slanted all calculations in my favor, as a margin of safety. Real world numbers are probably closer to $0.35/KWh. My last fill-up was $5.19/gal - so I'm gonna have to rerun my numbers; but I'm guessing it's going to be close to $0.40/Kwh.
     
    #12 BiomedO1, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2022
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no breaks in ma unfortunately. no interest in promoting ev's from anyone
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the way to calculate your electron costs is to divide the total bill by total kwh's used.

    we're around 24 cents, it fluctuates monthly
     
  15. PerryD

    PerryD Junior Member

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    I'm also in Massachusetts. Our town has a consumer-owned electric company (North Attleboro), looks like our current rate is 0.14618 / kWH including all fees. That'd be $1.28 for a full tank, and I get ~30 miles on that, which is just about the distance to work. Assuming 50mpg on hybrid, the cost of gas at $4/gallon would be $2.40 for the same one-way trip. I believe my break-even is around $2.15 per gallon at the pump.

    However, our Chargepoints at work are set to 25 cents per hour, so I'm spending about 50 cents there and an additional $1.28 at home for a total commuting cost of $1.78 for 60 miles. At $4 per gallon and 50mpg it'd be $4.80 for the round trip on gas versus $1.78 all EV, and now the break-even is $1.48.

    We are fortunate to have a really low price for electricity in our town. In January we received a free month of service because the costs had dropped slightly over the previous 12 months and we were given a credit. It make an obviously huge difference in the math if the fuel is cheap.
     
  16. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Didn't you guys vote blue? Someone must have dropped the ball

    .
     
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  17. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Sorry to hear that. I would've thought liberal MA would support the shift to EV.
     
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  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's very strange here. most of the liberality is aimed socially, whereas, my brother in florida gets cheap electricity and more solar and ev incentives
     
  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I agree. That's a fair way to assess the cost of electricity month to month. But as I pointed out in my previous comment, OP uses an extremely small amount of total monthly electricity. We use 48kWh in a single day sometimes. If his bill has a fixed fee, then the proportion of the fixed fee /kWh is very high. So, for his case, it may be better to calculate (monthly electric bill with the charge) - (monthly electric bill without the charge). That will give him an actual INCREASE in the electric bill that was spent on charging his PP.
     
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  20. Kebisho1

    Kebisho1 Junior Member

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    Thanks for the detailed electric, EV info. I may not have figured my electric cost correctly. You are correct that my 48 kWh per month is no where near the average. Perhaps the percentages of ancillary charges decrease as the electric usage increases. The electric cost per kWh totaled $7. The ancillary charges totaled ~$13 (distribution, transmission, etc, etc, etc, etc….).

    TBH I was not expecting the electrical versus gas to be much savings. I’ve found over time that I’ve not charged the car much. May hit up a public charger once a month.

    Great idea!! I’ll compare Feb to Mar. I charged the car from home in Feb. Perhaps the ancillary charge percentages increased a bit from Feb to Mar due to decreased electric consumption.

    Me too!! It could be because I am a registered Republican residing in MA. Political penalty. Got to read the small print. :)

    Damn!!! I am getting screwed in central MA!! Your rate of 0.14618 /kWh includes in the ancillary charges (transmission, distribution, etc…). I count eight different ancillary charges on my bill.
     
    #20 Kebisho1, Apr 12, 2022
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 13, 2022
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