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Notre Dame fire

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Leadfoot J. McCoalroller, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    The problem with glue-lam is that the life expectancy of the glue becomes the life expectancy of the beam. Not sure where you'd get one rated for 500 years...

    Something I found odd about this whole thing is that they announced the cause of the fire (accidental) before it was even out. France has had a rash of church vandalism lately, including Saint-Sulpice, a Paris church that was set on fire this March. Given that the area where the fire started (is believed to have started) is in the attic, and the attic no longer exists except as a pile of rubble downstairs between the pews, I just don't understand how they determined a cause that quick.
     
    #41 kenmce, Apr 22, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2019
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Glue lam was simply the only way I could think of to replicate massive wooden beams in absence of right-sized trees. Aside from possibly 'short' service life in this application, it could combine inherent flammability with non originality (which would offend some). Worst of two worlds?

    Probably more likely they'll go with structural steel after things settle down. That was the way at Chartres (after its third attic fire :eek:).

    Vandalism 'works' as a possible cause where initiation point is public access. Seems not to be the case here.
     
  3. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    "Not all of the secrets of Wootz have been discovered, but it has been partially recreated by Anosov, Pendray and many smiths in the 20th century. Nonetheless, research continues."

    I have a feeling that rate of rediscovery is probably happening at sort of a "niche" level of funding.

    Now, if a sudden calamity were to partially destroy a very important Wootz steel artifact, leading a bunch of billionaire donors to kick in 900 mil or so in the first week, it wouldn't surprise me to see modern R&D capabilities filling in more of the blanks at a better clip.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Possibly, but throwing money at an issue isn't a guarantee that it will be solved. Consider FCEVs and hydrogen storage.;)
    I'm sure many nobles threw money at trying to figure out Damascus steel since it was a big advantage in weapons tech.
     
  5. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    We may have a few more useful techniques these days than many past nobles had at their disposal.
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    True, but still not a guarantee of success, and any progress will take far longer than a few weeks.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I bet we're not going to be reading any news that has "Notre Dame" and "a few weeks" in the same story.
     
  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    #48 Prodigyplace, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  9. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A bet? or more of a hunch?
     
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  10. VFerdman

    VFerdman Senior Member

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    A hunch? Or more of a hunchback?



    Sorry, could not resist.
     
  11. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Sweet mystery of life, at last I've found thee.
     
  13. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Thoroughly Modern Millie?

    Anyway, back to ND, in Victor Hugo's novel, vertically challenged Quasimodo melted and poured lead. In a way, it actually happened in the fire when 200 tons of that metal became liquefied and followed gravity's whims.

    There are many sensible reasons not to be a firefighter but among them, having molten lead drip on you must rank highly.

    This could point to another suggestion for roofing, if attic is rebuilt as a bonfire-in-waiting.
     
    #53 tochatihu, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  14. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Naughty Marietta from the 1930s is more likely where Madeline Kahn might have heard it.
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I think the lead used in roofing is actually Terne - Wikipedia, a lead and tin alloy plated on steel sheets.

    Or I am wrong, as it appears lead roofing is still available today.
    lead roof - بحث Google

    For a historical building, the original material will likely be used. Its eventual patina is part of the aesthetic.
     
  16. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not sure - I read somewhere (on one of the organ sites) that they're considering 21st Century materials - whatever that means. Carbon Fibre, Graphene - no idea.

    After all, the organ, which dates back to the 1400s was substantially - ie radically - rebuilt, enlarged by Cavaillé-Coll in 1868. Since then, at least 4 modernisations have occurred, then a full rebuild in the last 2 decades costing €2mill+, with a new 5 manual French Style Console - a far different organ than the original 1400s organ with one manual - some pipes of which is still incorporated. It now is digitally controlled by seven computers.

    i.e. nothing like the original.

    The organ wasn't damaged as such, but will need to be completely dismantled and cleaned, as there is soot, dirt and smoke stains:
    upload_2019-4-30_10-47-32.png
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Honestly I was awaiting your organ report :)
     
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  18. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Took me a while to spot the thread.

    The organ has been discussed extensively on various music sites, organ and piano that I'm on - and a huge sigh of relief when it was heard that it survived.

    There are some issues:
    1) it will likely be mothballed (sealed in a tent or similar) while the Notre Dame repairs are carried out;
    2) it may not be accessible for cleaning/restoration till there is at least a roof and substantial cleaning of the damaged site occurs;
    3) hence - probably can't be played for maybe 5+ years;
    4) - can't remember what that was - if you remember what 4) was, just add it.

    upload_2019-4-30_11-56-7.png
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    that sucker's got more stops than the Paris metro... wow, I'll have to look for some recordings.
     
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  20. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    This is thought to have been the last recording on it - a couple of months ago.