Now, Lexus Fires Up Diesel Owners

Please provide a source for this claim.

According to this source...

Emission Standards: USA: Cars and Light-Duty Trucks—California

...LEV III is being phased in starting in 2015, and won't be fully implemented until 2025. By the way, I should correct an earlier statement I made; car manufacturers must certify to LEV III by 2020, not 2017 as I stated earlier.

 

Ahh, 2015 MY. That explains some of the discrepancy.

If the 2015 model emissions can test out to 150k miles then it has indeed improved to what I call a clean car. I'm confused by one thing though: I thought new models from 2014 onwards must certify to LEV III. If that is the case for this car, where is the US06 at 150k miles ? Or if BMW is relying on the 2014 cert, why have the other emissions numbers improved ?

 

You are officially labeled "slow". The LEV label represented the cleanest vehicles you could buy *at that time*. New labels were added as later:
circa 1990: LEV was created as the cleanest car standard
circa 1995: Ultra LEV was created as the New cleanest car standard
circa 2002: Super ULEV was created as the new cleanest car standard
Simple.

The tank deal is a mystery, but the longer warranty is obvious. Let's suppose some car was rated LEV when it was brand-new, but then the catalyst wore-out after 10,000 miles, and it became as dirty as a car without a catalyst.

The government's warranty mandate eliminates that problem by ensuring the car will always be a LEV (and if it ever fails, then the Automaker has to repair the car as its own expenses). It encourages automakers to produce quality catalysts that can last a long, long time, instead of cheap junk that wears-out after a year.

 

The BMW engine is also twice as large. I wonder how clean the Prius would be with a 3.5 liter engine, and 2000 more pounds to push around + tuned for 6 second acceleration. (Not as good I suspect.) In the UK the Auris Diesel emits fewer grams of CO2 than the Auris hybrid (mainly because the diesel gets higher MPG too).

 

From my understanding, manufacturers don't HAVE to certify to LEV III until 2020, although a handful have already certified to LEV III (e.g., Honda Accord Hybrid). We're in a transitional period until 2020. Keep in mind that the Prius is still certified to LEV II, at least as of 2014. Toyota may opt to certify it to LEV III for 2015 since it appears that it will meet the SULEV III standards. The certification fuel used for gasoline vehicles changes for LEV III to E10. LEV II certification fuel is E0.

I know that for LEV II and federal Tier 2, the SFTP emissions (i.e., US06 and SC03) were measured at 4,000 miles. I think that is still the case for LEV II/Tier 3 although I haven't been able to find anything explicit in the Tier 3 rule.

 

This is from the ARB pdf I posted earlier:

If I am reading correctly, manufacturers have until 2022 to reach LEV III, SULEV level emissions for their FLEET.

 

Your link was the proposed rule. Apparently, it got changed slightly before it was adopted as a final rule.

According to the dieselnet link I posted...

The final rule is posted at http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/leviii/attacha1.pdf although I haven't had a chance to read through it yet.

 

The following is taken from
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/levprog/leviii/attacha3.pdf

 

Wxman,

I found this table that seems to support your contention that cars may still use the much less strict LEV II for the next 5 years. If the 2015 X3 28d is able to certify as SULEV, LEV III one would think it would have been done to bank credits. BMW has a *long* way to go to meet LEV III fleet requirements in 2022. Unless they plan to start whining in 2021 that they do not have enough time.

 

California's LEV standards were adopted in 1990, and ran from 1994 to 2003. It had the following categories, TLEV, LEV, ULEV, SULEV, and ZEV in addition to the Tier 1 federal minimum limits. The LEV programed was discussed during the 1980's, but it didn't take effect until the 1990's, and all the levels were created at once.

Low Emission Vehicle (LEV) Program
United States emission standards - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Emission Standards: USA: Cars and Light-Duty Trucks—California

 

Diesel cars sell in lower numbers than hybrids. The potential credits from a LEV III diesel would be small. Then emission control technology is still young and evolving. It may meet the LEV III levels now, but it may not meet the levels at that 11year or 120k mile mark. Those target numbers are based on our experiences with gasoline cars' systems aging. BMW is probably playing it cautious with the certs until we have a better understanding on it for the diesel systems. Credits don't help if warranty costs are more.

 

If the cars cannot meet threshold emissions for 150k miles, then by LEV III they cannot meet SULEV. Period.

There is no such thing as LEV III SULEV for 50k miles, but not 120k miles. It would be like saying
"SULEV, except for NOx." LOL

 

Ahhh so the LEV standard is younger than I thought. (shrug)

If someone like Toyota or Honda says, "We can build SULEV-rated diesels," I have no doubt their engineers can do it. The problem is expense. Why bother making super-ultra-clean cars when Calfiornia will allow LEV diesels to be sold? This is the approach Mazda has chosen: No urea. No soot traps. Just make the car clean-enough for the bare minimum standard (and sell it for less money then any other diesel).

 

+1

I think this is how mazda would answer you

Since it is a primarily for japan car, but can hit the standards, that is how they sell it. If CARB wants cleaner cars they can raise the minimum, and have The minimum is much higher in LEV II than LEV. Now ofcourse maintenance costs and fluids (urea) are higher for lower pollution. That is a problem hybrids don't have.

Now some people by hybrids for low air pollution. Its not top on the list but its there. I doubt its one of the main critiria of diesel drivers. Here its torque and mpg. If the buyers aren't going to buy more, and the regulators say its alright, why shouldn't mazda do the minimum.

Now BMW is a different story. They are trying to overcome perceptions of dirty diesel in the US. If they can do that better by showing the real pollution, I don't think SULEV really matters to a buyer as long as its cleaner than SULEV standards.

 

We don't know if it can meet the 120k limit or not. The cars aren't actually tested out to that mileage. There is an assumed degradiation rate of the components that is used to determine the full life numbers for a bin or category. CARB and the EPA do not use separate emission limits for diesels. They require them to meet the limits for petrols. The assumptions for the petrol full life number may not apply to diesel components. BMW is making the safe bet that they will age and wear faster. If that proves to be the case, BMW saves money on warranty work, and there won't be headlines about clean diesels becoming dirty at X miles. There may be other reasons beyond US borders for certifying it to a higher standard which have nothing to do with how well the system works. For all we know, there was a backroom deal between CARB and BMW which kept the diesel at a lower certification, because CARB doesn't like diesels, in exchange for less limiting restrictions on the BEVx definition.

The likelyhood is that it will meet the SULEV standards out to 120k miles if it can meet the 50k mile one.

 

Probably easier to just have one car rated ULEV, than to have two cars rated SULEV and ULEV (for the CARB and non-CARB states). Volkswagen made that decision with their older TDIs where they just certified the car for all 50 states rather than have two different models. Ditto Honda when they consolidated their Civic Hybrid from 2 versions (ULEV and SULEV) down to just 1.

 

Now, Lexus Fires Up Diesel Owners

Ad is payback for years of verbal hybrid abuses from Auto Execs, "Journalists" and physical abuse: Diesel Trucks Destroy a Prius - The PRIUSPOCALYPSE

 

Not sure how long ago you lived in CA, but the smog standards here are enforced with a vengeance. We have no such thing as "try to fix", if it doesn't pass you don't drive, end of story.

 

Those guys should take a lesson on how to destroy a car. You need the right tool for the job, those knuckleheads ruined their own trucks trying to do the job. I can only imagine how spectacular a Prius destruction would be when 3000 rounds of .30 cal hit the batteries in a minute!
monster garage - YouTube
► 2:44► 2:44
monster garage - YouTube
Jul 30, 2006 - Uploaded by titan10105
jessy james shreads the failed doom buggy with a new toy.

 

Not true. A bit of google...

Toyota Auris | Specs & Prices | Toyota UK
CO2 emissions
Auris 1.4D4D 90hp - 103g/km
Auris 1.8HSD 136hp - 91g/km

I would strongly recommend learning a little more about diesels before writing up infamous sentences.