Obama pushing Congress to pass home efficiency recovery program - $150Bill to retrofit homes

This was part of the original stimulus bill. It was funded in there. It didnt happen

 

oh goodie another excuse for our government to print more money and dilute the true value of the dollar. I am not sure why we are stuck on a central banking system that since inception has done more harm than good. Oh well. Viva Obama.

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I am all for the saving environment but I dont think the government should be the one paying for it, people should be free to choose for themselves if it makes sense as an economical decision.

 

It's nice to have an administration that is at least headed in the correct direction. The bozos from the last one would have sent the money wrapped in a bow to Exxon instead.

It's also good when you can kill two birds with one stone. This is lift yourself up by the bootstraps stimulus with long term payoffs. Longterm thinking and reinvestment in the country...conservatives will hate it as those things go against their very fiber.

 

You have to remember we're talking mainly about tax breaks, not direct assistance. Whether or not a tax break "happens" is up to each individual taxpayer, and since 2009 taxes have yet to be filed, it's awfully difficult to state that the program was or was not used.

The existing credit generally did not cover installation costs. Although the article lacks details, I believe the proposed action would change that, as well as increase the cap.

 

Most folks won't be able to take advantage of tax breaks, as their income isn't high enough to see any real gain

There would be substantial reduction in energy consumption if most homes were retrofitted to geothermal exchange heat pump systems. Around here, even after DIRECT Manitoba Hydro incentives, such a retrofit will still end up costing the average homeowner $12,000

The problem with most of Canada, Alaska, and the Northern Plains of the US, is that it's a very harsh climate, with winter lows of -40 F or colder. So, when folks compare per-capita energy consumption of a typical European to a typical Canadian, these folks are not comparing apples to apples

 

And you don't think that saving energy/reducing CO2 emissions in the process, potentially reducing our dependence on imported oil, preserving or creating a few working class, living wage jobs in the process?

If you are indeed "all for saving the environment" you would realize that the deck is stacked against the individual such that one can't make an honest assessment. For example we pay millions perhaps billions to subsidize the energy grid we now use, and yet you don't rant against this. Because of this subsidy, it makes it harder for an individual to "justify" the cost of efficiency/sustainable/renewable energy. If my grid power comes a a price that is so cheap (not covering it's environmental cost) it makes Pv solar that much harder to be cost effective on the un level playing field.

If you don't think our energy policy is full of hidden and not so hidden subsidy, you haven't looked very hard.

 

The folks that have the liquidity to do such things however are doing these sorts of projects, and for the incentives. Sometimes it is just a matter of selecting the more efficient choice while replacing a dead unit, but it is happening with considerable frequency now. My AC guy commented this summer and fall that whereas before nobody was willing to spend the dollars for the high efficiency units, he was inundated with requests for them this year and wasn't selling any of the basic stuff. As a result he's changed what and how he quotes and has been working to improve his knowledge of them.

I've seen the same in prior years on windows and insulation projects. It was somewhat illogical at times to see folks chasing what were then small incentives with large expenditures. However, there are many folks who think the home mortgage interest deduction drastically changes their taxes...when you look at it incrementally compared to the standard exemption it often has little impact except for those who are way over leveraged in a home they really can't afford.

How much footprint (area) do you need for this? The numbers I've heard for installation cost were astronomical so I haven't pursued it. I should be able to get my heating gas use down into the 500 therms area with a high efficiency furnace and the cabover insulation project next year. With electric rates here I doubt I would save enough with a geothermal heat pump to ever get my money back on the investment.

 

I think the incentives push some people to make the changes they may have been considering in any case.

Example: We pruchased the very efficient washer / dryer when the water company had a rebate and Sears a sale. We spent money, and now have machines that use much less water / energy than the older models.

Example: I can probably reduce my (small) heating bill by improving the attic ventilation. I have not acted on this in part because my heating bill probably totals less than $500 per winter. (I live in So Cal, and keep the thermostat at 65 C, turned off over night and during the day.) A good incentive program might push me to improve the attic insulation, which is not so good.

I think that the program should expand to include rental units. I own a rental house, it has single pane windows, an older heater that still works just fine. However, the tenant pays the gas bill, and I don't know what the bill is. I have very little reason to change the windows, but a tax incentive would probably be enough to encourage me to do so.

 

If you have a rural property, the most efficient is to use the vertical well method, you need one well per ton of capacity. So at the very least, you have a hellish mess to deal with after, what with all that drilling going on

This brief from Manitoba Hydro explains it all

Earth Power Program Geothermal Heat Pumps

You're right, for a +$10,000 upfront cost, probably closer to $20,000, the average person simply can't justify it

Yep, you California people would freeze solid up here in temps of -30 C and colder. Personally, I find +30 C too toasty, especially if humid. I couldn't handle +65 C

I have said this for a LONG time. Don't forget that water infrastructure is rotting out, raising the introduction of organics into our potable water supply

Hence the need to up the disinfection dose levels, to keep much higher residuals in the lines

I've also been saying this for years. It's a simple numbers game. As long as the other 95% of the global population fight among themselves - of course we have it rigged that way on purpose - we're safe

But once the other 95% of the global population figures out that they're doing without, and we're sitting pretty, LOOK OUT

Anyway, I don't even bother offering consulting to the wastewater or water treatment industry anymore. It's 100% political, ironically owned locally by a municipality or city, and the political hacks only think in terms of their political future, not what is needed

Since when did anybody ever listen to an engineer, anyway?