1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

OEM Traction Battery Dead After 3 Years?!?!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by LoganAragon, Dec 19, 2021.

  1. LoganAragon

    LoganAragon Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    17
    29
    0
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Hi PC,

    For the record, I really don't think there is much to be done here, except bite to proverbial bullet and buy a new traction battery, but I would like to hear your thoughts/voice my complaint.

    Background. My wife has a terrible commute, 50 miles, 1 way. So three years ago we bought a 2006 Prius w/ 126k miles on it for $4000. About a week later, we got the red triangle of death. I figured a new traction battery at $1600 and we'd be good for another ~10 years and lots and lots of miles. (I was working on the assumption the batteries were age limited and not miles limited.)

    Now here we are, three years and, I kid you not, exactly 100K miles later (planned obsolesce anyone?) and the Prius needs a new traction battery. At this point, the car owes us nothing and I'm happy to put a new battery in it ($1900 this time), but again, my previous assumption is I would get more than 3 years/100k miles out of it.

    So I guess my question, if I have one, is this: Does that sound abnormal to you all, or do I need to adjust my expectations?

    Thanks for letting me vent,
    Logan
     
  2. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    7,383
    3,727
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So to clarify, this was a brand new Toyota-supplied battery for $1600? I find it hard to imagine you got a new Toyota battery supplied and installed for $1600, but maybe you mean that was only the cost of the battery.

    If the battery was not Toyota new but some kind of remanufactured/rebuilt then three years is pretty good going and the long regular commute probably helped a lot. I don't think you have too much to complain about, but very likely the product was misrepresented leading to unrealistic expectations on your part.

    Nowadays the only way to go is a brand-spanking-new OEM battery if the car is in top condition to make this worthwhile.
     
  3. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    10,681
    4,332
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    3 years is the max lifespan of a refurbished battery, not a brand new OEM battery, which is good for a decade or two ...

    Who did you buy your battery pack from?

    Also what are the error codes? You can't diagnose what failed in the hybrid system without the error codes and subcodes.

    More common than hybrid battery failure in Gen2 is corrosion in hybrid battery ECU where voltage sensor plugs in.

    My best guess is you're getting advice from a mechanic who isn't good with Prius-specific problems/details so you and the rest of us don't have much to go on...
     
    Travis Decker likes this.
  4. dbstoo

    dbstoo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2012
    1,196
    631
    0
    Location:
    Near Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2024 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XLE
    NiMH batteries are known to have a shelf life, though it's much longer than it used to be. Since the car is a gen 2, It's quite possible that the OEM battery was manufactured a long time back. Ask for the manufacture date if you get it replaced again.

    My first Prius (Gen 1) battery lasted quite well (May 2002 to Feb 2015) and the failure was purely mechanical; two of the plastic cells cracked and leaked after a trip to Oregon where the temperature was below freezing.
     
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    10,681
    4,332
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Nope... Toyota has been selling huge amounts of brand new OEM NiMH after they contracted with Panasonic in 2017 for a huge new order soon as they realized they could kill the competition refurbishing old packs at same price point.

    But the proof is in the serial number on each of the 28 modules that indicates the month and date of manufacturer...
     

    Attached Files:

  6. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2012
    7,383
    3,727
    0
    Location:
    Wellington, New Zealand
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    This not a concern. Toyota new batteries are manufactured on demand. A new battery is manufactured within 3 months from sale. There are a date codes on the outside for the battery build and the modules on the inside have a date of manufacture as well. It therefore is quite easy to confirm you have a recently manufactured battery or not.
     
  7. Another

    Another Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2021
    1,802
    508
    0
    Location:
    Naples, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    I don’t see the OP saying it was an OEM, just ‘new’ whatever that means neither did he say where he got it.
    Sounds like it was a ‘new’ old rebuild and three years or less is what is expected unless you go with GreenTec which offers four. Although no New Mexico shops for them Hybrid Battery Replacement | Honda & Toyota Hybrid High Voltage Batteries
    If the OP didn’t get the ‘new’ battery at a dealer and now is repeating its mistake, paying $1,900, then history may repeat itself in three years or less.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  8. Albert Barbuto

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    102
    94
    0
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    Something is amiss here. The 100 mile daily commute is the perfect recipe for keeping both the 12 volt, and the hybrid pack in perfect condition. My neighbor has a 2008, original owner, with 360k miles. The vehicle has a 45 mile daily commute. The hybrid pack is original, and has never been worked on.

    Back to your pack. I can't fathom a Toyota OEM giving you any problems. On top of each module is a serial number. See exactly when these 28 modules were manufactured. Also, monitor the pack in real time with something like "Torque Pro", or "Dr. Prius".
     

    Attached Files:

    #8 Albert Barbuto, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,455
    48,805
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    more detail, please!

    title says oem, but $1,600. would be an amazing price unless you installed it yourself
     
  10. LoganAragon

    LoganAragon Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    17
    29
    0
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    I
    OP Here,

    I apologize if I created any confusion/controversy.

    To clear up some things, I do mean a new OEM battery, brandy new from the local dealer, but installed by ours truly. The cost from Larry H Miller Toyota Albuquerque was $1600 last time, and $1900 this time, for the part alone.

    More over, it was the same Toyota dealer that diagnosed the new batteries untimely demise. I don't have a bidirectional scan tool or techstream, so I can't give you guys any specific DTC's. I will say this, the car/battery hasn't given me any CEL/Red Triangles yet, but its practically un-drivable. Any time the car is in, what I'm calling, a "high energy state" (driving up a large hill, going 80 MPH on the interstate, etc), and the traction battery state of charge is low (two bars or less on the multifunction display) the car will slowly loose speed until its almost dangerous, like 35 MPH on the interstate. Its odd, the ICE is literally bouncing off its rev limiter, and the car just wont maintain its speed. I realize there is nothing in the G2 Prius to "slip", its all gears or chain driven, but if I were to describe it differently, it "feels like" the transmission is slipping.

    As far as corrosion on the battery's ECU, its New Mexico man, its really not a problem here, but I will check. I will also get serial numbers/date codes off of the old battery when I, inevitably, replace it.

    Thanks again for all your input,
    Logan
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  11. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    7,469
    1,298
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    That's funny everybody's mentioning the hundred mile commute My08 been making a hundred us miles daily since new almost made 300K on orig battery 270 something replace w new Toyoda this past month.

    SM-A715F ?
     
  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,190
    37,961
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Dr Prius app is one smart phone app that can read codes, not sure how completely. You need something like Carista bluetooth dongle on the OBD port.
     
  13. SFO

    SFO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2017
    5,286
    4,223
    0
    Location:
    Northern California
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Clean up the HV battery fan if you haven't already. Always park in the shade, with the windows cracked, as heat soak is real. Try not to drive it hard and park it hot, use an App that tells you the HV battery temps. Turn on the AC whenever temps are over 80, and override the HV battery fan to a higher speed to keep the battery cooler. When the battery SOC goes low, instead of pushing the gas pedal harder, pull over and force charge. The replacement battery might last a bit longer.

    If you have no DTCs or warning lights on the dash, now might be a good time to recondition by cycling the HV battery with a gridcharger.

    Given your location and commute requirements, it sounds like you might benefit from a new lithium replacement.
     
    bisco likes this.
  14. 2010moneypit?

    2010moneypit? Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2021
    314
    122
    0
    Location:
    Beaumont ca
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I know your area does not have a lot of corrosion but the batteries are very corrosive. On generation two there is a huge problem with the connector or a wiring harness. Maybe somebody else can chime in and lead you in the right direction as far as we art numbers. It is difficult to do any work without the codes. May be helpful to invest in a scanner that can read the codes.
     
    bisco likes this.
  15. alftoy

    alftoy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2009
    1,130
    505
    0
    Location:
    Saskatchewan, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    I believe DR Prius App has more detailed analysis on Android because of limitations that Apple places on integration within the OS.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,455
    48,805
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    if it were me, i'd want confirmation, consider a grid charger, and maybe replace a few bad modules, considering the age of the battery, if it doesn't turn out to be corrosion.
    i don't see any point to replacing a 3 year old battery
     
    Albert Barbuto likes this.
  17. ammdb

    ammdb Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2019
    261
    106
    1
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    Vehicle:
    Other Electric Vehicle
    Model:
    N/A
    This just doesn't sound like the symptoms of a failing battery pack. Even when a Prius gives up on the traction battery all together, and goes into limp mode, the ICE revs at hight RPMs, but the car can still be driven at highway speeds without slowing down. When modules in the battery start to fail it will set a battery related engine code.

    A new Toyota pack only comes with new modules, housing, and cables. All the other components must be moved over from the original battery. If another component like the battery ECU is faulty, getting new modules won't fix the issue.
     
    #17 ammdb, Dec 19, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
  18. Another

    Another Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2021
    1,802
    508
    0
    Location:
    Naples, Florida
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Without a minimum of free Dr Prius data, very difficult to start to diagnose anything. If that’s too much, take it to another Toyota dealer and see if they can confirm that you actually did buy a new, new OEM battery from the first guy.
     
  19. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    3,173
    1,315
    0
    Location:
    NJ-USA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    If I saw a car with these symptoms, I would be looking at (and recording) data from the engine, hybrid control, and HV battery ecu's while under high load conditions. IF the HV battery State Of Charge gets low enough then all you have to move the car is a "detuned" little 1.5L engine. Which won't move a heavy car like the Prius very quickly at all.

    Even so, something doesn't sound quite right, and why is the battery gauge down to 2 bars in the first place? I might think that the ICE has problems- weak fuel pump, MAF sensor, restricted exhaust, etc that is reducing output. If the ICE can't put out enough to move the car AND charge the HV battery, then eventually the battery will run low.

    Also I would consider the Dr Prius and Hybrid Assistant apps (on android) with a compatible bluetooth OBD2 adapter to get a "guesstimate" of HV battery capacity.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
    strawbrad likes this.
  20. LoganAragon

    LoganAragon Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2018
    17
    29
    0
    Location:
    New Mexico
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    I
    OP Here,

    If I were to summarize your above comments, it seems odd that a three year old OEM battery would die, so I'm inclined to think its something other than the battery. I finally had an opportunity to look into this more and here is what I found.

    Traction battery fan and ducting is clean and unobstructed.

    All the individual cells load test between 7.9 and 8.1 volts, so I know I DONT have any completely dead cells. Also, all the cells have a serial number that starts 046TEK, so that means they were all manufactured at the same time. The attached above documents only help identify battery cells manufactured up to 2015, and that predates my cells/battery and isn't relevant, although I do appreciate the hustle.

    I looked for any sort of corrosion/broken traces on the traction battery ECU and I cannot find any.

    I DID find a tiny bit of corrosion on the bus bars, so I am going to clean them and see if that makes a difference. Also, almost every one of the bolts that holds the casement of the battery down to the chassis was loose enough for my to remove by hand! I'm the last one to touch those, so that's on me, but at the same time, I don't think that would have caused the problem.

    Unrelated question, will the G2 Prius NOT run with the cover off the battery? I'm asking for a friend.

    Logan