OEMS Worry About Cheap Gas

I don't hear about any auto companies being worried about cheap gas, the lower the price of fuel the more they sell of higher margin less efficient vehicles.

Toyota's truck factory is gong full blast, and there is a much higher profit margin on a tundra than a prius.

Environmentalists though should be concerned.

 

People age generally short sighted and "instant gratifiers."

So, they will buy high powered gas guzzlers, when the price of gas is low.

Pickup trucks and larger SUV's have higher profit margins for manufacturers and dealers, just because they have higher prices.

 

The broadcast talked about toyota and ford executives saying that they wouldn't be able to meet cafe mandates if fuel is cheap. They will likely push back at the government to lower cafe regulations.

Forbes opinion pieces have seemed to agree that if gas is inexpensive then meeting cafe standards becomes more and more expensive for the automakers. Toyota I think is crying crokadial tears, as they are in much better shape than ford or gm when it comes to cafe. Forbes solution? Cafe is less costly to the economy with higher fuel taxes. Our gutless politicians will probably lowre cafe instead of raising fuel taxes though if gas prices stay here.

 

Wait, why are you throwing the Tundra into the mix? Are you implying that you don't camp anymore or that the Prius tows your trailer? I don't think that is a fair calculation because you've made a lifestyle change that shouldn't be included into the equation. Camping IN the Prius doesn't count either because you could have easily drove the Saturn and stayed in a hotel, tent or other lodging.

 

they're concerned about not meeting cafe. fortunately, that can be solved by discounting the heck out of they're high mpg vehicles. a win for priuschatters!

 

Well yes, but they are not really concerned. They are all making big profits in the US. They have this fake concern as part of the lobbying effort against cafe.

 

exactly.

 

We had planned the ALASKA trip with the Tundra and camping trailer, but then shifted to the Prius + attached tent setup, AKA "Prius Super RV". DW had vetoed using Saturn for the ALASKA trip, so the choice really was Tundra + trailer or Prius + attached tent. We found that the Prius RV combo really eased the driving task and gave us maximum flexibility in camping and moteling, and allowed us a 500-mile range, which was truly useful on the Alaskan highway. So no lifestyle change, but a choice of Recreational Vehicle systems, and the Prius is extraordinarily efficient as an RV in our experience.

 

Robert congratulations on downsizing your transportation foot print. You found that you didn't need to tow the camping trailer behind a truck but could instead use a tent. I would call this a positive life style change, and you saved fuel becuase of that, not having a prius. Plenty of vehicles would have been fine in alaska that were more efficient than the tundra/camping trailer but not hybrids.

I probably had a smaller footprint on my trip to alaska last summer. I flew to seatle for work. Visited friends. Took the train to vancouver, cruise ship up the inside passage, train to denali, bus back to anchorage. The rest of our group flew to vancouver. I'm sure it cost us more though ;-)

Prius definitely saved me money from my last car a 300 hp lexus gs. It goes through tires slowly and uses about half the gas per mile, and I am driving fewer miles (partially because they are less fun). I do want more power and luxury in my next car though.

 

I totally understand what you did and it is what I would do. I just don't think that is a valid calculation. You could have taken the Saturn on the trip and used an unattached tent. It's not quite the same as saying I replaced X car with a Prius and saved X amount of money per year.

 

Given DWs opposition to the Saturn, I would have been an unattached male in that unattached tent!! Or put another way:
Saturn + tent --> $1200
Tundra + trailer --> $3800
Saving Marriage with Prius + tent --> priceless !

 

+1

And perhaps you wouldn't have thought about the option if you hadn't bought the prius ;-) I still think including that savings is a bit over the top, but hey you did save that gas and money. Just out of curiousity, what is this special prius tent?

 

That's awesome, Robert! Hahaha

 

Cannot upload pics from iPad, but tent is the Napier SportZ Dome To Go Model 8600. We sleep in the back of the Prius and use the attached tent as the living room and dining room if necessary. The tent is compact enough that even with air mattresses, foam pads, sleeping bags, and cooking gear, we have room for two suitcases which we use on the "moteling" nights.

 

Re: Gaso Prices - Going Up or Down?
I know it's popular here to think gasoline prices have no where to go but up...in some ways I wish that were true.

But even when crude oil over $100, some experts were saying the true cost was really $60-70 excepting for world conflicts and speculation. Now enter USA as a new major producer. What's the true cost now? maybe $55-65.

Here's a novel idea: Now enter the possibility that world conflict could encourage the major players (USA, SA) to force oil prices below the true cost, instead of above the true cost. The rationale for this would be to devalue oil as a weapon against the bad guys. Yikes now where does the price go?

Now enter possible slow down in China...late 1990's was dreadful economy over there in SEA.

I am just saying....who knows where we are heading? Not me. But I made a speculation in another thread of $2/gal is possible, not saying likely, somewhere in the USA by Febraury 2015.

 

It costs Saudi Arabia about $9/bbl to produce oil, and if they had nixon era policis they would be pumping out a great deal more oil. They and the rest of OPEC hold back production to keep the price high. The do need revenue though so they have pumped enough during this recession for prices to go down. The stronger dollar, along with Opec wanting revenue rather than dollar price stability, are the key factors in the price.

Most of the United states oil costs about $30 to produce, but things like the oil canadian oil sands are around $65. If the price were to go bellow $60/bbl then a lot of north american oil would be capped and we would import more from opec, until they decided that the price should rise. That really is a price floor, but if chinease economy and european economy recover than opec will probably peg prices to $110-$130/bbl.

 

Thanks for posting pic. Answers are:
1. Yes. You can disengage the large "sleeve" that fits around the back of the Prius and then take off leaving the tent standing free. The flap zips closed so that neither rain nor bugs can enter while car is disengaged.
2. We use small butane stove on table, but the side windows are huge so venting not a problem as long as long as windows are open. Would avoid using both burners of a Coleman stove with everything zipped up tightly, however.
3. Plenty of room and privacy for a portable potty when the windows are zipped shut. I was thinking of a marine chemical toilet but don't have one yet.
4. I am careful to keep exhaust outside of tent! Don't trust heat exchangers. Inside Prius with foam pads underneath and sleeping bag spread on top was quite warm down to low 50s as with windows shut the air infiltration is much lower than in a pure tent. If you have campsite with 120-volt, recommend small electric resistance heater as we have used those in tents down into the 30s.
5. With experience, set up and tear down times are under 30 minutes. If you are in a hurry and just toss everything into back of Prius heater-skelter, we have done tear down in 15 minutes.
6. Much prefer to pop-up. No hitch to install, 30-odd pounds rather than 300, no impact on gas mileage, no difficulty backing up as there would be with the trailer attached to the hitch. But max would be sleeping 4 persons, two in Prius and two on queen sized air mattress in the tent. Pop-up could sleep more. I felt I had better protection from weather and grizzly attack inside Prius than in a pop-up.

Since space in back is limited, would recommend backpacking type cookware, stove, chairs, table, LED lantern, and so forth so that it all fits easily.
Hope this helps--the Prius really does make a Super-efficient RV.
If interested can post pics of equipment and packing plan, etc. from PC.
Cheers!

 

I'm not sure it's a novel idea, as Regan conspired with OPEC to bring oil down to break down soviets in 1980's. I'm thinking, it's the same game plan now to punish putin for his ukraine adventures.

Regardless, I remember the first time I saw gas price over $3 in 2005. If someone told me then that gas would be under $3 almost 10 years later I would never ever believed it.