Oil Analysis, Redline D6 ATF 30k miles

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by TheChip, Oct 22, 2018.

  1. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    Just recieved back an analysis of my cars first oil change with Redline D6. it was changed immediately after this with more D6. Car is a 2010 Prius with 102k on the odometer at change. This was after 30,000 miles with several long road trips over the summer in excess of 10 hours of driving each way and three autocross events that saw me force charging the battery 6-8 times for each in addition to a lot of heavy driving.

    The numbers all look fantastic, and support the claims that D6 is an incredible ATF choice for the Prius!

    10 PRIUS-TR-181017_Redacted.png
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice! does it burn any?

    have you looked in the egr circuit yet?
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    I don't want to kick over the wasp nest, but maybe this needs a disclaimer? Toyota is adamant in the Owner's Manual, that any alternative to Toyota ATF WS fluid could damage the transaxle.
     
  4. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    This is transmission fluid, so if I managed to get that in the EGR I've done something VERY wrong!


    So says any manufacturer for any component. The wear numbers don't lie, and it meets Toyota WS spec. I'll do another analysis whenever the next time I change it is and post more results, but I think the writing is on the wall when it comes to using D6. I'll be sticking with it.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oops!:p
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota doesn't condone it. Please, a disclaimer? For the unwary? Or do you see that as "caving"?

    For the record, this is the one item that Toyota is very emphatic about, they don't say you need to use Toyota coolant (they come close though), engine oil, brake fluid. But for the transaxle fluid, they say:

    upload_2018-10-23_12-1-3.png

    Grammatically a bit fractured, but still clear.
     
    #6 Mendel Leisk, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  7. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    I'll put the disclaimer here.

    DISCLAIMER: Put products not certified by the manufacturer in your vehicle at your own risk. YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE RISK by changing your oil with anything other than Toyota Brand motor oil, as specifically laid out in your owners manual! You're taking your life into your hands by not following the manual to the letter! BE WARNED!

    I think I nailed it. Based on your concern for the owners manual, you should be posting in every thread where people are talking about oil brands to use in their vehicle based on this, straight from the manual.
    "Engine oil selection “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” is used in your Toyota vehicle. Use Toyota approved “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” or equivalent to satisfy the following grade and viscosity."
     
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  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Toyota doesn't say anything about having to use Toyota motor oil. Please, put a disclaimer regarding alternate transaxle fluid dangers, in the initial post.
     
  9. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    You are incorrect. My manual specifically says the following
     
  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Lets not get off-topic: please put a disclaimer in your intial post, regarding Toyota's stance regarding alternate transaxle fluids.
     
  11. royrose

    royrose Senior Member

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    TheChip: Based on this analysis, have you come to a conclusion on how long you will go before changing the ATF again?
     
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  12. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    These numbers easily support 50k or more. I'll change it at 50 and see how it looks then. I'm guessing this fluid can get to 100k, especially if you don't drive it like you stole it.

    I change my lubricants more often than I nneedto, so more than likely I'll stick to 50k after this next change. I also do 5k oil changes, as it's a small price to pay to know the components are as lubricated as possible.

    I also autocross and race my car so I imagine I'm a lot harder on it than most. The fact that I drive the car so hard during the hottest time of the year seeing temperatures over 100 tells me this fluid is really good stuff. When the old WS came out at 70k it was dark red bordering on black. I wish I'd have saved some for an analysis but it certainly did not look good.
     
    #12 TheChip, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  13. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Yeah, Thanks for posting these results!

    I recently bought an '11, Level 5 with the ATP option and 181k miles on it.
    Back with a gasser Prius as a back up to my EV!!
    I planned to change the ATF immediately but when I got it Safety Inspected at the dealer I got to see the Service Record. The previous original owner had it changed twice during its life !

    Anyway, I'm considering Mobil 1 ATF HP which is lower viscosity version of M1 ATF when I do it in the future. I think I used D6 with a previous Prius I had.

    ps.
    I am definitely in the camp of using the best lubricants available for my cars.
    To argue that the Toyota's house brand has special mojo is silly.
    This is the stuff dealers put in old Echo's on up to new Tacoma's.
     
    #13 Bill Norton, Oct 28, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2018
  14. TheChip

    TheChip Senior Member

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    Totally agree with you. Toyota claiming the ATF fluid is "lifetime" is simply insane.
     
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  15. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    To the manufacturer, "lifetime" means until the emission warranty expires.
     
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  16. E46Prius

    E46Prius Active Member

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    Redline D6 ATF according to the Redline spec sheet is compatible for applications calling for Toyota WS ATF. It is more than fine. It's basically Redline's solution for all modern transmissions calling for thinner fluids for fuel economy these days. BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Toyota, Honda, etc. This fluid is for all of them.

    Its published tested specs has it slightly thicker at cold and hot temps than the stock fluid, which theoretically means it would offer greater shear resistance under hot temperatures which should be in line with the OP's intended use. On the flip side it might be more mechanical drag/friction which would simply mean worse gas mileage. But I'd think any difference either way would be negligible.

    Toyota WS ATF viscosity:
    23 cSt @ 40C
    5.45 cSt @ 100C

    Redline D6 ATF viscosity:
    30.3 cSt @ 40C
    6.3 cSt @ 100C
     
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  17. E46Prius

    E46Prius Active Member

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    And by the way, Toyota/Lexus does not manufacture any fluids. I think Exxon makes it.Toyota just tells them how they want it.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    So far: a lot of other fluid manufacturers are saying their product is ok. And Toyota? No comment?

    A transmission failure will more or less "brick" the car. Sure an alternate may be fine, but why second-guess Toyota, where's the upside in this? Convincing yourself it's somehow smoother, superior?

    Meh, carry on.
     
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  19. Usle

    Usle Member

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    I'll bite at this one;)

    Toyota buys its motor oil from Mobil1, not sure about the Transaxle, guessing the same.
    Watched a utube, somebody took an M3 and changed out the engine, tranny and rear end with Red Line, the car was Dynoe'd wth the old fluid then again with the new fluid, a 10% increase in torque at the rear wheels, eye opening.

    So....using synthetic red line fluid for the transaxle is a good move, it's in all ways superior to the cheapest possible stuff Toyota uses, which is synthetic.

    Meh.
     
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  20. E46Prius

    E46Prius Active Member

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    Toyota has nothing to gain by specifically and explicitly OK'ing the use of an aftermarket fluid. Also not sure if you were aiming your post at me, but I for one am not second-guessing Toyota. Quite the opposite actually. I'd just use the factory recommended and/or required fluid on a car like this--a commuter car. No need to go Redline. All I'm saying though is that its fine if one does... As long as oil meets spec, it doesn't matter the brand.

    I used to go through this with the BMW crowd. People would always ask WHAT OIL DO I USE. My answer was always use Genuine BMW oil--it's the easiest and safest choice. But I also said HOWEVER IF YOU DO want to go with another brand, simply make sure the oil meets spec. For BMW that would be ACEA A3/B3. (A european standard for euro cars required by euro brands). Excellent HTHS properties, among others. Pretty much all the major brands make an oil that meets that spec as well as many other specs.

    The "new" Toyota WS ATF is the oil pretty much all modern Toyota/Lexus auto boxes use... which means it's common... which means all major oil manufacturers make an equivalent.
     
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