Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock!

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by danlatu, May 22, 2017.

  1. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    I was thinking Indian Head Shellac lol
    My brother and I were joking about using that on the head gasket...it might take a jack hammer to get the head separated.

    I finally got some progress made on the EGR cooler while I'm waiting on gaskets...and honestly...I don't know that I trust a toyota gasket set any more than anything else out there. My 5 months ownership of a gen 3 prius has me questioning ever buying another toyota again. I can see me selling this car as soon as I get it back together and never getting another prius. I bought my 2008 gen2 in 2014 with just under 96k. It now has nearly 233k and I have literally only replaced tires, 12v battery, and front brakes. I was sold on the prius being bullet proof. I now stand corrected. The gen3 I have now is on its 3rd HG change in less than 20k miles. I'm not sure I'm willing to gamble on this not happening again even with the OCC and clean EGR cooler.

    Anyway, back to the EGR cooler, I was able to chuck that 1/16" brass brazing rod into my drill and finally get some solids moving. It's getting there. I can actually breathe through it now pretty much unrestricted. I filled it with some more oven cleaner and will check it again later.
     
  2. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    3rd head gasket, in 20,000 miles???
    Did you clean the EGR Circuit for the other 2 times?
    If not, it would be like rebuilding an engine after it ran out of oil.
    And then not putting oil in it! It won't last.

    You can't blame these things on Toyota.

    I just crossed 220,000 miles and coolant level hasn't moved.
    1-1.5 qts between 10,000 miles oil changes, with 0W20 oil.

    The Prius is a good car. Almost any car will last if you take care of it.
    95% of the parts I've used have been Toyota parts. Because the cost is within
    a few dollars of aftermarket parts, for most things.
    I did replace the front hubs with Moog hubs.
    I had replaced front's and rear with TRQ. But their quality sucks now.
    I'm sending the front ones back for a refund. So far, the rears have been okay
    except for the RR one lost the abs sensor.

    If/when they go bad, Moog.

    Good luck with the Cooler. It's a pain, but will be well worth it.

     
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  3. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    I hadn't replaced it either of the other 2 times. My buddy picked it up knowing it needed a head gasket, he replaced it. Blew a 2nd one, checked the head like he should have the first time and it was warped. Had it milled. 10k or so later he sold it to me...wasn't a fan of the prius in general. He didn't clean the EGR cooler. Didn't even replace valve seals because it wasn't using oil. He's not a prius guy and had no idea of the EGR and PCV issues. I'm not sure I want to roll the dice on the OCC and a clean EGR keeping this from happening again.

    SM-G981V ?
     
  4. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    So buy a newer engine

    moto g power ?
     
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  5. Grit

    Grit Senior Member

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    Go for a third head gasket. That’s the charm.

    Some feller said clogged egr does not lead to blown gaskets, and it would be insane to believe so. Just quoting.
     
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  6. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    If this car was as nice a ride as my gen 2 I would possibly think about it...
    This gen 3 is a rattle box with a rough ride...I don't like it enough to spend any more money than necessary to keep it going right now

    Yes, I'm hoping 3rd time is a charm

    SM-G981V ?
     
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  7. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

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    Check the tire pressures.
    Does it need shocks and struts?
     
  8. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    Pressures are good, I suppose it could be shocks and struts but there is zero bounce front or rear. Can hardly make it move at all. Stiff as hell...TWSS I know....


    SM-G981V ?
     
  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    My role in that drama was the madman. :)
     
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  10. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    BTW, I meant "gasket kit" not "filter kit", but you're smart enough to read through my knuckleheadedness. (Thanks!)

    Beck/Arnley is basically parts store brand. Not the worst in the world, but certainly not premium. I'm frugal enough to take a chance on bargain parts if the price is significantly less and it's something that can be easily swapped out if the part fails. But old enough to have learned that sometimes it's best to just buy once, cry once. On one hand, the brake calipers, rotors, and pads are not OEM on any of my vehicles -- they were 1/3 the price of OEM, and I can swap any of those in an hour. On the other hand, the rear axle bearings on my Tundra are OEM -- that's a job I'd prefer not to repeat (very labor intensive). IMHO, this is a job you don't want to do twice. $60 more paid in quality parts is money well spent. Again, IMHO.
     
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  11. rjparker

    rjparker Senior Member

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    Often a rod is slightly bent and poor piston rings likely started the chain of events. Make sure the pistons reach the same height on tdc.

    Tires like Michelins make a big difference combined with recommended pressures. It is clear the 2010-14 gen3s have problems.
     
  12. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I bought a caliper for 1/3 the price of OEM and swapped it in an hour, but (a) it turned rust all over inside of five weeks (this was on a Gen 1, so ferrous, not aluminum), and (b) it was from March to August that year before I figured out why that brake was dragging. What slowed me down, of course, was my assumption that it had to be something other than the caliper I had just replaced. Who knew a caliper could have zero piston retraction right out of the box?

    Now I know to check them for that on the bench before spending even the hour to put it on the car. The OEM caliper I replaced it with passed with flying colors, of course, good healthy 0.3 mm retraction.
     
  13. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Considering the egr cooler can be done without an investment other than time, sounds right up your alley:).

    And maybe it saves another head gasket job(y).
     
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  14. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    Let's hope so, it's the "maybe" part that has me apprehensive though.

    Also, the piston height seems to be identical across the board at TDC on all 4, I checked that as soon as I pulled the head.

    Here's some brass brazing rod EGR cooler cleaning. Is it critical to get every last little bit of build-up out? I know there's still some in there but it's pretty darn clean right now.


    Also, I've read that permatex ultra grey is what some use for timing cover and cam housing gaskets, is that advisable? Also, any tips or tricks to get the chain tensioner slipper and timing cover installed correctly and within the 4 minutes they say it has to be done?
    I'm dreading this reassembly already.

    And what the hell is up with the tape and a hole prick in the VVT oil hole? Strangest stuff I've ever dealt with on a motor...

    SM-G981V ?
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Using air pressure to release an internal catch in the VVT actuator so you are able to turn it.

    Sometimes the repair manual is keen on where and how and not so hot on why....
     
  16. Dilbone

    Dilbone Junior Member

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    So, does the fact that I never took out the cams but just locked them down with paper towel scraps mean I don't have to worry about this maneuver?
     
  17. RightOnTime

    RightOnTime Senior Member

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    Yes that is correct
     
  18. Pollymath

    Pollymath Member

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    The root problem of all these issues has gotta be the oil burning. Whether it be from valve seals or piston rings.

    The EGR while poorly designed just shouldn't be getting clogged like this, or at least this quickly. 03-07 Ford 6.0 Powerstroke diesels were notorious for their EGRs getting clogged, but those are diesels that run dirty by design.

    The solution is just keeping oil from getting burnt at all. The Prius shouldn't have any oil in the intake, any oil getting burnt - period.

    The OCC can help to an extent, but if you've got leaky valve seals, oil will still get into the combustion chamber.

    You can have a completely clean EGR, but the oil burning will still cause a knock on startup, still fowl plugs, still kill catalytic converters.

    If from day one of the motor running you can insure that you never burn any oil, I'd imagine the EGR would go a very long time before it needs cleaned, but would likely get clogged with mere carbon deposits. The only solution to this would be a redesigned EGR system that promotes higher flow, is easier to service, and hopefully doesn't get clogged as easily.

    I'd love to see the emissions difference between a Prius with the EGR functional and clean vs one without an EGR system at all. My guess, is that in a car that's burning oil, emissions are gonna suck no matter what, so you might as well just delete the EGR system until you can fix the oil burning issues.
     
  19. Tekken

    Tekken Member

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    After 6 months of OCC installed, there're still large amount of oil under the throttle body and Manifold. By change a larger size of OCC can be help to reduce feather oil in the manifold?
     
  20. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    Although I think oil burning accelerates the EGR clogging it's not the root of the problem. I have a Prius that burns zero oil @
    100k miles. At 70k miles the EGR was plugged with the startup death knock. I cleaned it all out per my sig. It's just what happens when you condense the exhaust from burning carbon-based fuels.

    And demolish the head gasket. Plugged EGR = deleted EGR.

    moto g power ?
     
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