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Oil change adjustment for EV usage versus ICE usage

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by dalcon95, Jan 24, 2017.

  1. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    In other words, MG2 clearly can exert a torque on the wheels, but without the sprag clutch, all MG1 can do is affect the speed of the ICE relative to the wheels. With the sprag clutch, MG1 can also exert a torque on the wheels.
     
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  2. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    It sounded the same as what Lee Jay described.
     
  3. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    53 kW - Do you have any source for this? Although MG2 is rated at 53kW, I doubt if the G4 tiny battery is capable to deliver even half of it. I have not seen any statement as to the max EV power of the G4.
    76kW - I know you are relying on a translator comment in one of the videos but it could be a misunderstanding and the engineer could have been referring to combined motors power which is 76kW. Anyways, Toyota have stated it in writing: the max EV dual motors drive power of the Prime is 68kW and not 76.
     
  4. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I've found this 68kW number everywhere but from Toyota. 76kW is what the chief engineer said in person and what they told Danny when he visited Japan.

    2017 Prius Prime First Drive: Best Prius Ever | PriusChat
     
  5. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Here is one from Toyota:

    Imagine being able to drive at speeds as high as 135km/h or as far as 50km* without using a drop of fuel. Well, that time is now thanks to the Prius Plug-in Hybrid’s 68kW EV power rating.

    All-New Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid
     
  6. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Well, I don't know who to believe. I generally don't believe any marketing I ever see, especially on technical points.

    However, there's another problem. Every analysis I do on Ev mode acceleration shows it's only producing 53-56kW of actual wheel power, peak during the run. I am including drag in the calculation.

    If it were producing 68kW or 76kW, it would be faster to 60 than it is.

    I'm wondering if there's some problem that they aren't actually running in dual-motor mode, or if you can only get dual-motor to work in some specific way that no one has found yet.
     
  7. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Technical data on official publication is a commitment legally binding...anyways downsizing is a strange marketing approach.
     
  8. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    No, errors are not legally binding, and I have found errors of substance on hundreds of marketing materials on things as diverse as cameras, computers, cars, airplanes, and even rockets.
     
  9. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    Now you have shifted from 'marketing exaggerations' to errors. Errors can fall everywhere even in your own privet calculations.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I'm just going on what the chief engineer said and what they told Danny in person (which I referenced).

    And I cross-checked my calculations using a separate method so I know they're accurate (the chances of calculating the same thing two different ways are very remote unless they are both correct).
     
  11. giora

    giora Senior Member

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    As far as I remember, the chief engineer said something in Japanese and was translated so in this case you heard the translator statement.
    Couldn't find any mention of 76kW (102hp) EV power rating in the reference you have cited, did find this:

    MG2 has always been the traction motor for the Prius, but the clutch allows MG1 to act together with MG2 as a larger, more powerful traction motor. That increases the power output to 127 hp in the Prius Prime vs 91 hp in the Prius Plug-in.

    Which doesn't make sense to me either. Maybe he meant to say 127 hp combined and 91 hp (68kW) in EV? Maybe @Danny can chime in to clarify?
     
  12. Dael

    Dael Member

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    Does The new trans axle limit Smaller MG (now MG2?) to a certain RPM? I know the older tranny did to 6500 rpm? Larger MG has it's limits?
     
  13. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    At 12:00 to 14:00 minutes he compares RPMs, the latest is 17,000 RPM.
     
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  14. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Hmmm. I just posted the same video in response to the same question from the same person a few minutes ago.
     
  15. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Maybe he is spamming all the forums, when I notice that i just ignore the person in their profile, so I never see them again.
     
  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    I know what you mean, but I don't think so in this case. Probably just fairly new here and doesn't realize how confusing and messy & confusing it gets having parallel threads on the same question.
     
  17. PT Guy

    PT Guy Senior Member

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    Back to the oil---
    It's a relatively large sump for a small engine, so the oil is "used" less; some just sits in the sump until it gets to the pump.
    Toyota could have put an hour meter on the engine, or a total fuel-consumed since the last service meter, or some other good indicator of engine usage...they didn't.
    I'm not at all sure about syn oil leaving a better protective film on parts than conventional oil. In any case, most "synthetic" oils in the U.S. and Canada are just very highly refined petroleum (Group III base stock)...and they do a fine job.
    Gasoline is cleaner these days, oils are much better, engines are machined more precisely...oil is good for a long time. NOT 50k-60k miles!

    The newest oil improvement...last month...is API Service Category SP and ILSAC GF-6A oils for better engine protection against low-speed pre-ignition (LSPI), timing chain wear protection, improved high temperature deposit protection for pistons and turbochargers, more stringent sludge and varnish control, improved fuel economy, enhanced emission control system protection and protection of engines operating on ethanol-containing fuels up to E85.

    GF-6B is only for 0W-16 oils...does anyone know if our Prime engines are back-certified for this oil?
     
    #57 PT Guy, Jun 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I haven't seen any evidence of Toyota back certifying engines for 0W16.
     
  19. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

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    FWIW, I wrote this way back in January 2017, right after we’d ordered ours, not to receive it for another four months.

    I’m almost certain now that this is rarely, if ever, the case. They turn over the engine MG1 and MG2 turning the same direction, best I can tell now, only in the the process of starting the ICE while driving forward.