Oil change interval question

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by yiujai86, Jan 12, 2020.

  1. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    Take a look at John Kelley's video where he explains the Prius Prime trans-axle which links the two motor-generators and the internal combustion engine. Particularly, see his discussion about 37 minutes into the video where he discusses the electric oil pump which circulates oil through the trans-axle for both lubrication and cooling.

    While the internal combustion engine may run very rarely on the Prime, the oil is still being circulated and subject to heat and contamination from the metal particles which are the result of normal wear of gears, bearing and other moving parts.

    While you may not need to be concerned about degradation of the oil itself, you still need to consider the limitations of your oil filter in keeping the oil free of particulate matter and contaminants.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The oil in the transaxle is an automatic transmission fluid. That is what that pump is circulating.
     
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  3. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    And no filter.
     
  4. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Well...for someone who doesn't throw wheels almost every night anyway. ;)
     
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  5. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    That Toyota OW20 you bought is not synthetic oil at that price I am assuming. Would you use that in your Prime?
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I have an old-guy, save-my-back technique now, for putting wheels on:

    1. Have the car raised to the wheels no more than necessary, say underside of tire an inch at most.
    2. Sidle the wheel up as close as practical, lug holes oriented roughly correct.
    3. Put on a head lamp and switch it on. Have the lug nuts, a socket and extension close at hand.
    4. Sit on your butt, comfortable close, and hook your toes under the wheel, at say 4:30 and 6:30. (steel toe boots help)
    5. Lift the wheel with your toes, which is absurdly easy with most any passenger car or CUV wheel. Our daughter's Pilot is worst case for me, really not hard.
    6. Guide the wheel on with your hands, doing rotation and lateral correction with your toes, and line up the studs with the wheel holes with the help of the head lamp.
    7. Push it on, spin on at least one nut near the bottom of the wheel, and you're home free. :)

    The Toyota 0W20 only comes in synthetic. My dealership sells 1 liter bottles of the same oil for around $6.15 (CDN), and up until recently was selling me bulk liters for $4.95.

    They "upgraded" their invoice system about 2 years back, and it seems like all they want to do since then is get me out of there fast. Which involves about 10 minutes of serious typing, lol. The guy said I just used the dollar value from last time.

    So yeah, I'm getting 9 liters of Toyota 0W20 (synthetic) for $25.20. Canadian. That works out to, just under $2 (US) per US quart:

    upload_2020-1-12_20-40-46.png

    And putting it in my 2010, which is essentially the same engine as the 4th gen Prius or Prime. For about 4~5 years I used their bottled, then switched to bulk, both for price and to stop contributing motor oil bottles to the "recycle stream".

    I think the main reason the price is so low is that they are really struggling with the new invoice system. Looking back I see one invoice: 10 liters for 49.50, basically their quoted price. I was ok with that. But $25 for 9? I just pay it and get out of there quick, lol.

    FWIW, their bulk 5W20 is conventional oil. I buy that for our daughter's Pilot. I would have no qualms about using it in our Prius, or their bulk 5W30, which I'd assume is also conventional, if I decided to go up in weight.
     
    #26 Mendel Leisk, Jan 12, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  7. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    Well, they rotate my tires for free and never try to sell me anything. One time the service writer suggested I let them change my oil for me because they can do it inexpensively. All I had to do was say, "No thanks. I enjoy changing my oil." He totally got it. That's why I like this shop.
     
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  8. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I thought all "0W" oils are synthetic, at least synthetic blend for sure. Can't remember, if the manual called for 100% synthetic for PRIME. As long as it meets the grade specified by Toyota, I don't see problem using it even if it is the blend type.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    0w-xx motor oils are all synthetic, or at least a higher percentage of Group IV oils. The nature of Group III dino oils means a 0w with isn't possible. If that oil isn't synthetic, it isn't 0w, and fraudulently labeled.

    PS: In case it wasn't clear, Mendel brings his own bottle, and buys the oil out of the drum the dealer gets for their shop. I know there is other factors in play, but kerosene from the pump is much cheaper than getting in a bottle off a shelf.
     
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  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Question about the not so implicitly required brake maintenance on PRIME. I have been reading 3 years/30K miles is the maintenance interval for the "thorough brake inspection". Would the cost be much different between "thorough brake inspection" and say brake pad replacement and/or brake fluid replacement on PRIME at that distance? I doubt my car needs to have the pads replaced anytime soon, but if the cost of through inspection as you say is $200~400, as might as well replace the fluid while I have the car in the dealer if the cost is not much different. No, I am not going to attempt any of brake job DIY. I just know that it is beyond my capability.
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Brake fluid replacement is different than a brake inspection, regarding what needs to be removed. I do it in conjunction with a tire swap, going from our all-seasons to snow tires, when the car is on safety stands with all four wheels off. I think if I was going to do it professionally I'd charge about $100. You hardly get your hands dirty. You could probably do it with the wheels on, car on the ground. I haven't done our Prius that way, but I have done other cars thus.

    Brake inspection I stagger: in the year it's due, I do the fronts in the spring, rears iin the fall. It's no more work that way, you're just raising one end of the car, and it's more leisurely, you tend to be more thorough and careful. This is just my typical drill. Occasionally I'll also check rotor thickness and runout, but not every time. Also, with the Prius rear brakes, you have to be very careful with the rear piston orientation. And with the Prius, the front brake caliper piston is plastic, so always push on the full surface area, avoid point loads. Anyway:

    You loosen the wheel lug nuts (of one end or the other), chock the wheels at the other end, raise the end you're doing and settle it on safety stands, and remove the wheels.

    Remove the bolts going into the backs of the caliper slide pins. Toyota recommends to restrain the guide pins from turning while doing this: a slim 17 mm open-end wrench is good for this. Pull the calipers off and suspend them with string tied to the suspension spring;, keep them from hanging by the brake line.

    Pull off the pads/shims and disassemble them in order on some newspaper. Clean off any old lube and brake dust, check-and-note their thickness, reassemble with a thin/uniform layer of anti-seize*. To get the lube precisely where needed, always apply it to the smaller of the two pieces.

    Clean the caliper "fingers" that contact back back of pad, carefully wipe the caliper piston face and boot, inspect boot condition, apply anti-seize to both the fingers and the piston contact zone, being very surgical with the piston face: don't get any on the boot. Apply a slight amount of SilGlyde Brake Lubricant to the piston boot, in the folds, with the tip of a screwdriver

    Pull the caliper pins out of the caliper support bracket. Check that the pin boot condition, rotate them a bit, clean them, apply SilGlyde per previous paragraph. Wipe clean the pins, apply moderate amount of SilGlyde uniformly, then work the pins back into the bracket. Twist as you work them in, trying to avoid scraping off the lubricant. Push the boots back on completely, burp them a bit to get out excess air.

    Place assembled pads back into the caliper bracket, install any V-springs (maybe just on the backs) untie and reinstall caliper, then the bolts through caliper ears and into the slide pins, and torque.

    Reinstall wheels, lower the car, torque wheels.

    Attachments are fourth gen, I think applicable to Prime as well.

    * This is a little contrary to the Toyota recommendation, just an old Honda habit.
     

    Attached Files:

    #31 Mendel Leisk, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Oh, I see. I was hoping to shoot two birds, but I guess, that means I need two stones.:(

    Thanks for the detailed description of what you do for the "thorough brake inspection". Although, after I learn the procedure and do it once or twice, it will be easy enough DIY project, at this point, only part I feel confident enough to perform on my own is the part where you "Reinstall wheels, lower the car, torque wheels". I may have to leave the "thorough brake inspection" job for a Pro and separately ask for the Brake fluid replacement sometime in near future. Currently at 38K, and only brake jobs done on my PRIME were the cursory visual inspections at a dealer.
     
    #32 Salamander_King, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Yeah, the elephant in the room with a transaction like this, is:

    upload_2020-1-13_10-8-32.png

    I bought Toyota 0W20 in bottles, for years, and all those empties were starting to dismay me. They tell me the bulk is the same stuff, it certainly looks the same, performs the same. I trust they are on the level.

    A lack of "trust" adds so much dreck to the recycle stream these days, all sorts of packages. Costco for one is terrible.

    One more tip: if you ever get into it: disconnect 12 volt before starting, when everything's reassembled pump brake pedal, then reconnect battery. You will loose some memories, but not doing this has a lot of risks: a piston might get popped out (if you open driver's door), and the car might detect excess brake pedal travel, throw a code, which may need Techstream to dismiss.
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Oh, I guess, this means I can't connect the OBDII port to the battery using one of those memory saver cord? I bought one of those memory savor to work on my son's HONDA, so I don't have to look for the RADIO CODE again!!! But connecting such devise while working on the Prius means the ECU will be always awake, isn't it?
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    Yeah you want the car dead to the world, no memory saver.

    I know what you mean about #[email protected]! Honda radio codes. I suspect no one in the history of mankind has attempted to steal a stock Honda radio, the only result of that nonsense was bricked radios. I believe in the States you could plug in your VIN on some site, answer a few questions, and get the code? No such luck up here. The only solution is to put a sticker on the glove box inside wall with the code, and woe betide you if you don't...
     
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  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yap, I experienced it with my old HCH. I suspect my son's CR-Z is the same way. While I am sure I can get the code from the internet, it would be easier if I didn't have to look for it, for the car was purchased used and did not come with the radio code sticker in the glove box.;)
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    For current cars, you might not be able to do the bleed with the wheel off the ground. There likely is a valve that cuts off the fluid when the wheel is up, or the suspension fully extended. My guess it is to not have a wheel lock up lose contact with ground is lost.

    Without Techstream, or other manufacturer's equivalent, you might be able to do a 100% fluid change with an ABS system. There are some crossover lines sealed off by valves used during the ABS activation. Not getting the old fluid out of those isn't a real big deal though.

    What does the Prius use for the parking brake? Disc's are superior to drums, except as parking brakes. While a clamping system* could be used, many manufacturers just put a small drum brake within the rear disc rotors to handling parking duties.

    *Do the new electric parking brakes keep enough tension on disc brakes to act as a clamping system? If so, I can see how the reduce weight and save costs.
    Disc brakes are easy to work on. Drums can be a PITA depending on how easy it is to retract the piston in order to remove them.
     
  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    There's no problem with third gen, and I'd suspect it's the same with fourth gen.

    I'm thinking you meant to say the above (red markup added)?

    FWIW, in the attachments, the Repair Manual gives with and without Techstream methods. The latter involves a chicken dance to put the car in "invalid" mode.

    For both brake fluid changes I did (without Techstream) I purchased 2 pints, tried to do roughly uniform bleed at all four corners. Doing that tri-yearly, I think you're keeping on top of it.

    Yeah the rear (disc) brake is "complicated", but also the easiest to bleed. Assistant steps on brake pedal and an electric pump pumps out the fluid till the cows come home. The parking brake has a cam mechanism I believe. I semi-understand it, but nowhere near completely. There's clever bits inside, like a screw with a spring around it, and the spring only allows the screw to unscrew itself, cinches and locks if it tries to turn the other way. This mechanism is to adjust for pad wear I think.
     
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  19. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Unfortunately our nose wheel assys weigh almost twice what a little ole Prius wheel does, so trust me...I know old guy. ;)

    Now getting stuck with a six-pack (wheels) and four brakes on your Friday "easy" plane at our age...:whistle:
     
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  20. PT Guy

    PT Guy Active Member

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    Nothing is free, and it's not directly warranty related. The first two years of scheduled maintenance is prepaid as part of the purchase price; it isn't broken out separately on the price sheet.

    It is important to follow the maintenance requirements to keep the warranty in force. Delaying an oil change won't relate to any warranty item that is not oil lubricated, but keep all parts of the warranty valid by keeping the maintenance up to date.
     
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