Oil Change question

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by tonypalermo, Oct 13, 2021.

  1. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    The title of that video ...

    I have to admit I rarely check the oil in my Toyotas because after 20 years of checking and finding it right where you left it the last time tends to make you lazy. I had a VW Jetta that drank oil like a sailor on shore leave. I had to add a quart every 700 miles, and that was with less than 10,000 miles on the clock. VW assured me it was normal, though.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    If the higher humidity is the reason for the change interval, the acid neutralizers may be getting used up. An oil analysis that includes the test for total base number will tell you how fast those neutralizers are being used up.

    First line of the article I posted, "The new ILSAC specification for passenger car motor oils, GF-6, is expected to have a first license date of April 1, 2018," and the 0w16 will be introduced with it.

    A new oil doesn't pop into being when the standard is written. It has to be developed first, and that is what has been going on in Japan for years. With it being developed in Japan, the car companies there are more familiar with it. They will be the first to use it in car models, and Toyota did start using it in the Camry years before the oil was even available in the US.

    Toyota did something to the 2020 Prius Prime that resulted in a new EPA engine code, which is when they started calling for 0w16. Toyota has not back certified engines for 0w16. So the engine change likely is for the oil, which engines for their home market could already have had.
     
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  3. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    The article incorrectly stated that they were working on SAE 0W-16 oils since the 1990s. No such viscosity grade was defined in SAE J300 until 2015. Back in those days, they unofficially called thinner oils SAE 15, SAE 10, and SAE 5, even though no such viscosity grades were defined. No one even talked about SAE 16 for sure, let alone it be defined. Circa 2015, when SAE 8, 12, and 16 were finally being defined, they surprisingly used 8, 12, and 16 instead of 5, 10, and 15 to eliminate confusion with SAE 5W, 10W, and 15W. The article should have said that they were working with thinner oils. The viscosity of these oils could be anything as far as we know.

    It's like Penrite 40-70, even though there is no such thing as SAE 70 or a multigrade that starts with SAE 40. See the fine print that says that it can be used instead of 25W-60, the latter of which is the thickest multigrade in SAE J300. Also note that "SAE" is eliminated in the viscosity label because that would cause legal action against Penrite for selling a SAE J300 viscosity grade that doesn't exist.

    [​IMG]

    You can buy Toyota Genuine Motor Oil SAE 0W-8 JASO GLV-1 (JASO M364: 2019).

    0W-8 synthetic oil GLV-1 4 litre—Part no. Toyota 08880-12905—Phil Gilbert Toyota

    [​IMG]
     
    #43 Gokhan, Oct 14, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    As long as you use synthetic oil (0W-20), you are fine with 1-year/10,000-mile (16,000 km) oil changes. The 6-month/5,000-mile (8,000 km) oil change is a relic from the days when Toyota allowed conventional 5W-20 in addition to synthetic 0W-20. I believe for 2011 and later Priuses only synthetic 0W-20 was allowed, and the oil-change interval was increased to 1 year/10,000 miles. It is not a US vs. Canada thing.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The point is that Toyota knows what it takes to use 0w16 oil.The new EPA code, and Toyota not back certifying it for older cars, points to minor changes needed in the engine.
    Except the maintenance schedule in Canada calls for the 5000 mile interval while the US one says 10k miles.
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    That ended with 3rd gen. For 4th gen, Toyota Canada says yearly or 16K kms (~10K miles), per US.
     
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  7. tonypalermo

    tonypalermo Junior Member

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    I drive mostly in EV mode. I drive around 60 miles a day but I'd say only 5 to 10 miles is in gas mode. I charge at home and charge when I get to work.
     
  8. tonypalermo

    tonypalermo Junior Member

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    You are totally right, $350 bucks is nothing, compared to a new engine.
     
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  9. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    Of course that is true. Last time I checked my Toyota dealer they wanted $75. for an oil and filter change and rotate the tires. Twice a year that is $1500, not $350 spent over ten years.
     
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  10. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I change my own oil. At your rate, $1,500 is still cheap. You maybe can buy a used engine for that without installation.
     
  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    There is little known about it if at all. It could be something only on the paper, like a retest of fuel economy with 0W-16, which didn't change as reported, or some adjustment unrelated to oil or even the ICE.

    5k OCIs are mainly a relic from conventional-oil days. Even my 1985 Corolla specified 10k OCIs, but perhaps after the Toyota sludge civil action, they went back to 5k. With synthetic oil universal now, it's 10k.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    You are comparing against someone who never ever changes their oil, not against someone who still does change but less frequently.
     
  13. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Senior Member

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    I had always changed my own oil. I am thinking about changing that policy. A couple of days ago I changed the oil on my 2002 4Runner. I had to go online to find out where the oil filter was. First I removed the five bolts that held the front rock shield on. It still wouldn't come off. I then jacked it up and removed a front tire. Then pulled back a rubber flap and could see the oil filter. I had an oil filter tool and a long socket extension and was able to remove the filter and install a new one. However, the filter tool fell off the new filter and I still can't find it somewhere under the engine. I will leave it there and probably sell this vehicle before it needs another oil change. I wonder if I should advertise that it already has the filter removal tool if you can find it?
     
  14. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Changing the oil in a Prime takes 15-20 minutes.
     
  15. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    That issue could have bee easily resolved. I would have epoxied the extension to the cap wrench, Also, I might cut a hole in the plastic flap with a hole saw the size of the filter and the wrench for future removal and installation. Then, I'd purchase a matching size push-in hole plug for the hole cut in the flap.

    My dad got tired of removing the entire undercover for each oil change on his 1998 Mazda MPV and used that technique. Oil changes got absolutely easy.
     
    #55 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 15, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Maybe for you and other veteran DIYers. For me, just jacking up the car takes 15-20min. Another 15-20min to take off the flap and remove the drain bolt. Another 15-20min to remove the filter. Another 15-20min to put the plug back and filter on. Another 15-20min to pour the oil and check the leak. And another 15-20min to put the flap back and put the car down. Oh, yes, forgot to mention at least 15-20min before all this for getting all tools and place ready and another 15-20min after done for putting away tools and cleaning up the place. The DIY oil change takes just about the same time as driving to the closest Toyota dealer (1-hour drive) and waiting there for about 1 hour and driving back home. That's why I will not do my PP oil change myself. I will just drive to a dealer for the free Toyota Care. I am most likely selling the car before it needs the third oil change.
     
  17. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    All you have to do is to drive it up on plastic ramps. Take off the oil change cover. Place a drain pan under the area. Remove the drain plug and the filter, Let the old oil drain out, Replace the filter and the plug. Screw back the access cover. Refill with 4.4 quarts of oil and you're done. Just drive the car off the ramps. At least 2-1/2 hours saved.

    I keep the oil change tools in one box in the garage next to the oil and filters.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    For a data point, this is what my next oil change will cost. Have the supplies on hand, checked through my receipts. Note, the oil is bulk Toyota 0W20; it used to be very cheap, but jumped in price, this latest time 'round:

    upload_2021-10-15_17-51-56.png

    Start to finish? That's a little optimistic. And really, it's not a race.

    I find just getting the front of the car raised (with rear wheels securely chocked fore and aft), settled onto safety stands, and the shield taken off (my pref is to take the full shield off), runs be about 1/2 hour. Then about an hour or two more, for draining the engine oil, removing/replacing the oil filter, torquing, reinstalling the sheld, lowering the car, putting away the safety stands and jack, measuring out and adding the oil, and general cleaning and tidy up.

    Say minimum two hours, more like three.
     
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    As I said, for you it saves time. NOT for me. I don't particularly enjoy laying on my back and crawling under a car on my driveway, especially if it's hot or cold. If it is free I will go to a dealer. I am sure there is something I can do in 15-20min but it will take you 2-3 hours. I only do our other car (Pathfinder) oil change DIY, just because that saves me $40 and because it takes me half the time. I don't have to raise the car and unbolt the plug (I have Fumoto drain valve on the car) and the filter is accessible from the wheel well.
     
  20. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I place the car on ramps, pull down the oil change door. It stays in place in the down position as the edge jams on the concrete.

    I've used the Fram Sure drain system that I now have on my Prius for years.



    The outflow hose goes in a used 5 quart jug and automatically drains when screwed in to open the valve in the Sure drain valve.

    Only a small amount of oil comes out as I take out the spin-on oil filter that I use with this conversion.

    https://www.armstrongfamilyblog.com/armstrongracing/the-2016-toyota-2zr-engine-oil-filter-conversion

    Most Primes use the spin-on from the factory, so no conversion is needed.

    Even though I have two of the special $60 Toyota official oil filter cap wrenches, I prefer the Honda one that Mendel recommends.



    There are equivalents to the Fram Sure drain system as it has been long discontinued.

    Having worked on cars and changed oil for many years, I don't use a torque wrench. 1/3 turn after hand hightening is good enough for the oil filter. The same after full contact is good enough for the oil plug.

    Using this technique, not much clean up is needed.
     
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