Oil filter fell off, then engine knocking, now P3190 and P0A0F

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by DeniseIsNewToThis, Jul 28, 2021.

  1. DeniseIsNewToThis

    DeniseIsNewToThis New Member

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    I’m SUPER new at messing with my own car and this is my first post after getting a lot of help from you guys (and YouTube) about a few past issues. I’ve had my Prius for 2 years and it feels like it’s been one thing after another…

    The other day the oil filter fell off of my 2008 Prius. I suspect it had been coming loose a bit before that and leaking, because the car was complaining about oil the day before. I was actually on my way to pick some up when it probably came all the way off and dumped what was left of the oil out. It made all kinds of terrible noises and turned off the engine, and luckily I was able to coast to a gas station to wait for a tow.

    the next day is when I discovered the oil filter was missing. No idea how that happened. It didn’t have any recent service. I put on a new filter and filled it up. I drove it around the neighborhood and it sounded good, so I went to work. I’m a delivery driver. After about 15 miles of going between stores and houses, it started to sound rough. By the time I got it home (probably another 5 miles) the engine was knocking fairly loudly. No warning lights or codes, though.

    Did a LOT of research (quite a bit of it on here) and drove it around the neighborhood a bit to try to understand the noise it was making and how speeding up or slowing down changed it…as if I know enough for that to help me in any way. No real leads after hours and hours of reading and texting with dad, so I decided it was mechanic time. Got in today to head to the mechanic and it couldn’t get the engine started. Got P3190 and P0A0F.

    It looks like there are several things that could be causing these codes, but I’m so new at all of this and I’m losing my motivation to dig around in there (especially in the hot, humid New Orleans weather), so I’ll try to get it towed somewhere in the morning.

    But I thought I’d see if anyone has any thoughts. Was hoping someone might have some brilliant idea I can try/check in the morning before I hand it over to the mechanic. Lack of funds for repairs is why I started getting my hands dirty in the first place. Also just kind of curious what everyone thinks it might be and how an oil filter can just FALL OFF!
     
  2. DeniseIsNewToThis

    DeniseIsNewToThis New Member

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    This is probably not relevant information, but here it is, anyway.

    About a year ago I had the hybrid battery replaced About 6 months ago I had the brake actuator replaced. A couple of weeks ago I replaced the inverter coolant pump, based on error codes and research. This was my first time actually doing work myself (other than changing lights and the non-hybrid battery) and it went pretty smoothly (thanks YouTube!). Had some trouble with overheating after that because I didn’t realize there were 2 places to put coolant, and eventually found that the smaller one that feeds coolant to the new fan was empty. After that everything worked great…for exactly one week. Then the oil filter fiasco and engine trouble.
     
  3. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    Can't go back in time and correct things now. My suggestion is to not put money into this car anymore. Sell it for what you can, use the money to buy another Prius. This car has been through a low oil episode and low coolant episode. It will eventually fail you. Don't put good money towards this thing anymore

    or If you can find another good working engine cheap, put another engine in the car.
     
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  4. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    It appears that you ran the car more than a minute or two with dangerously low or NO oil in it.
    A lot of "wear" parts are likely damaged now, as evidenced by the knocking sounds.
    The damage is already done and can't be UNdone without a new engine.

    That "low oil pressure" light should be accompanied by a message covering the whole screen that says:
    STOP ENEINE IMMEDIATELY.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    well, you've got a prius with a new brake actuator and battery. the engine makes a trifecta, and depending on mileage, i might consider replacing it
     
  6. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    On the bright side... After this experience you're likely to compulsively check how tight your oil filter is on all your cars for the rest of your life. :)
     
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  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Albeit academic now, my guess is that whoever put the filter on only tightened it up to finger tight and forget to torque it down the 3/4 turn to complete the job.
     
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  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Blown engine from oil loss. The yellow check engine light was blinking the whole time from lack of oil pressure. When the check engine light is blinking pull over asap and dont drive it till the issue is fixed. Fixed engine light is emissions.
     
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  9. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    @DeniseIsNewToThis:

    It’s a pretty common refrain here, from the who-needs-a-torque-wrench camp: “I’ve always just hand-tightened the oil filter, never had a problem”.

    What’s done is done, but could this be a factor? Who did the last oil change?
     
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  10. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

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    After 40 years of wrenching I kind of wish I had screwed something by doing the torque wrong... All those years of it not being an issue has developed some bad habits in me at times.

    Obviously from an engineering perspective proper torque gives you peak strength of the bolt down system and if that system gets pushed to its limits that's what you want... But...
     
  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    I don’t use a torque wrench but I do tighten it by hand then another 3/4 with wrench.
    To have a oil filter fall off it was never even hand tightened I bet. Probably just spun on .
    And pretty sure because of that there was no oil pressure the whole time so check engine light blinking the whole time. Check engine light came on first time it was started after oil filter.
    Bet it smelled smoky too oil leaking out at speed would have gotten all over the exhaust and cat.

    Never heard of an oil filter falling off which means a dealer didn’t do it or a quickie oil joint they like to sock the oil filter and pan bolt on so tight you need a breaker bar.
     
  12. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    foul play can always be a factor, possibly more likely in this case?
     
  13. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    it would have to be loose in order to unscrew itself.

    or someone loosened it to do bad things to your car.

    given the description of what you head, the gas engine is totally destroyed.

    you can have another installed used for around $2-3k or scrap the car and start over
     
  14. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    I believe that method is also sanctioned by Toyota (and Honda btw).

    I did the conversion to spin-on, with our 3rd gen, and first time installing I turned till it had solid contact, marked 6 o’clock with a silver sharpie, torqued it to specd 13 foot pounds, and what do you know: sharpie mark was at 3 o’clock. :)

    see the 3/4 turn method is only instruction on the box:

    C966E6FD-97BF-4683-8BBC-B409873C9AE0.jpeg
    worth noting: the 3/4 turn is after it’s been turned past contact, not tight as you can by hand.

    Repair Manual does say 13 foot pound too.
     
    #14 Mendel Leisk, Aug 8, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2021
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  15. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    whoa, I've never used a torque wrench on an oil filter. that's wild.

    so you're saying it was 3/4 turn past "on"
     
  16. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I don't think the intention is to have people use a torque wrench on the oil filter, hence the instruction to 'tighten the filter another 3/4 turn with a dedicated tool after the gasket makes contact with the installation surface."

    Conveying the amount of torque in a written procedure is really hard to do without stating an actual torque specification, which is why they specify the torque value. Then everyone is on the same page and nothing is vague or left up to interpretation.
     
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  17. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    I was just looking for clarification about the amount turned. I wasn't sure if the 6-3 was 3/4 turn or not.
     
  18. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    That kind of instruction has been around for DECADES and isn't always the "right" thing to do.
    It can vary some due to the brand of filter or maybe even a tiny change in the gasket thickness or material.

    IF you are trying to get that last 3/4 turn and are thinking "Damn that is REALLY tight." then STOP.
    You will be sorry if you get it on TOO tight.
     
  19. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    of course. I'm not the guy that just keeps gorilla'ing a fastener because "the manual said keep going". it's always a good idea to apply common sense to fasteners, assemblies, and question the torque call outs if they seem like dumb suggestions.

    for instance, an axle nut in one manual called for 165 ft lbs... this would obviously be 100 ft lbs more than necessary, but there were still guys blindly following that recommended spec because "the manual is right" , for an aluminum nut on an aluminum axel.

    another example, 10mm bolts (the head socket size) called out 75ft lbs, when 75 INCHes would make a lot more sense for such a tiny fastener. snap.

    I've watched guys reef on oil drain plugs, banjo bolts on oil feeds and brake lines, even seen a torque wrench brought out for 8mm hex head fasteners. I try to look away when those things happen now, and let the expensive mistakes happen.

    I'm just looking to clarification of what Mendel said.
     
  20. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Probably not the front wheel bearing castle nut on one of my Crown Vics was a 32 mm nut @ 130 lbs.

    6 foot pipe on a 1/2 inch breaker bar had to put all my weight on it finally gave way with a really loud crack. Thought I snapped the shaft off.
     
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