OK, I quit - just deleted PriusChat and What Drives Us podcasts from my itunes queue

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by stevemcelroy, Jul 19, 2011.

  1. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    So a few weeks ago I posted a thread stating my growing frustration with the podcasts. The 2 beefs that I had were that there was little show prep leading to many factual errors and panelists going on rants based on incorrect info. It seemed to me that the focus had grown more towards delivery of jokes and catch phrases.

    Russell was kind enough to respond to my original post so I figured that I'd give it another go but after listening to podcasts 69 and 70 I'm going ahead and deleting them from my itunes subscription list.

    My guess is that on 69 this issue had been mentioned to the panel - there was a whole lot of silence whenever anyone asked if there were opinions - not something that makes for good listening. But I thought at least in stead of going off half cocked on any and every subject they would actually keep up with the auto business as a whole and alt fuel cars in particular. I figured that they would read a bit of Auto Blog and Auto Blog Green, some Left Lane News, Auto News and the like as well as auto podcasts so they had a decent base of knowledge to go on. Boy was I wrong. In number 69 they mentioned that Tesla was doing away with the Roadster and the panel seemed shocked.

    The same topic came up a week later in episode 70 and it was apparent that no one had even google searched it. One comment was that the news must have been leaked from a super secret cove somewhere. In fact the news that the Roadster production was ending was pretty widespread when Tesla was filing for its IPO. There was a great deal of discussion that Telsa would be building no cars for about a year between the end of the Roadster and the start of production for the S. The reason for this was not Telsa, but rather Lotus was ending production of chassis the Roadster used so it was not something that Tesla had a hand in.

    I'd argue that the Roadster is one of the handful of most important alt-fuel cars - while it did not sell a ton it did more to change the opinion of the general public of just what an electric car could be - no longer was it the strange looking tiny car that people would joke about. The Roadster was/ is truely enviable. The fact that the panel did not know that it was coming to the end of production was pretty bad. The fact that it was discussed briefly one week and then no one read up upon it before talking about it the next is (please forgive the strong language, but it is the only description that I feel fits) unforgivable. It’s akin to doing a baseball podcast and not knowing that Cliff Lee signed with the Phillies this winter – for those of you not into baseball Lee was a big signing and it is something that anyone talking baseball would know about.

    I may be in a minority, but I like my information sources to be factual. The building that I work in houses the maintenance staff for a real estate firm that manages many properties so they have a dozen or so guys. They have a building BBQ on Fridays and if I wanted to hear people spout off on topics that they know little about I'd spend my time there.
     
  2. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Steve; sorry the podcasts did not work out for you and maybe an "edited" version that cuts out the side tracks, etc is in order. but for me, its just not about data. it is really about a way to get a bit closer to people i interact with online all the time. it brings more meaning to what i read, type and do here and that only comes from knowing the "person beyond the words"

    now, maybe i have an advantage in that i have met these people in person so there is more of a bond than one would normally have, but i will admit that the live broadcasts are 10 times more enjoyable since i do get to interact with them and others.

    another thing to keep in mind; the chats really mirror real life. people do not stay on topic. they dont do it here and they dont do it in real life. this is not a board meeting. its simply another way to get together
     
  3. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    If this rant is all about knowing details of Tesla's d/c of the roadster then I cannot get too excited. FWIW, my understanding is that Tesla's contract with Lotus is coming to and end and Tesla is not renewing with Lotus. Even if Lotus is not planning to continue producing the current Elise (?) body, presumably Tesla could agree to a contract for a different auto body, so OP's understanding sounds incorrect to me.

    Irony
     
  4. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    Sagebrush - here is the quote directly from the IPO docs that Tesla filed with the SEC-

    "We do not plan to sell our current generation Tesla Roadster after 2011 due to planned tooling changes at a supplier for the Tesla Roadster.... As a result, we anticipate that we may generate limited, if any, revenue from selling electric vehicles after 2011 until the launch of the planned model S..."

    So - not so ironic or incorrect. I tried to keep the explanation simple, there is a great deal more to Telsla's decision not to continue on with the Roaster and to nitpick the specifics is to completely miss the point of my post - namely, if you are doing a podcast and expect others to listen and to value your opinion, the panelists actually need to be informed and not talking out of their elbow (to keep it PG).

    The Tesla thing was a just one example of how the show panelists talk about things that they have no knowledge about. This was not something that I noticed on earlier shows, but in the last few months there have been a few of these instances every show. If I'm going to spend my time listening then I expect that the folks doing the show actually do the prep to be able to talk intelligently on the subject. The internet is far too full of misinformation already. My posts were meant to be constructive criticism so take them as you see fit.



     
  5. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    If you want something scripted, with well-researched and possibly inside knowledge of hybrids and electrics, and reasonably entertaining...well, all I can say is, good luck with that.

    We know the panel isn't infallible, and most 'live' shows are rife with misinformation, even (especially?) the ones where the panelists/guests are paid. The panel doesn't make any claims to be all-knowledgeable. Obviously being better informed is good, and maybe having a list of things to talk about that has researched is good, but you lose all spontaneity if you can't go off-topic, or take user feedback (they have live chat).
     
  6. stevemcelroy

    stevemcelroy Active Member

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    I'm not looking for well scripted but I do want someone who knows that they are talking about. If we look at cars in general I would suggest that you listen to Autoblog's podcast - they are all guys who have other day jobs and do this one the side, but they all know their stuff.

    I'm not talking about infallibility - the Tesla thing that I pointed out seemed like a pretty big deal.

    On one hand it seems like many bloggers and podcasters want the same respect that mainline journalists get. I would make the argument that when a few of the panelists got time in the Plug In Prius last summer and when Danny and Russell attended the Prius V launch (be it on Toyota's dime as most press events are or paid for by themselves I do not want to assume) they started getting benefits offered to journalists.

    What would you do if you turned on the TV news tonight and they gave out the weather for 6 months ago - I know that it is different, but it also is a bit the same.

     
  7. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    Amen to that. i am a pretty avid listener of Science Friday by NPR News and they make mistakes. in fact, they frequently will clarify a point on a previous show.

    but that is pervasive thru out history when it comes to communication. there is few sources that most of the time and none that are right all the time.

    fact of the matter; we have been lied to, misled or purposely kept in the dark on a multitude of subjects all our lives.

    most media manipulators know that first impressions carry the most weight and no amount of retractions or corrections later is as effective and they use that to their advantage to sway public opinion.

    granted this not what happened here, but lets just say; dont believe every thing you hear or read. that rule has been true all along and nothing has changed
     
  8. SlowTurd

    SlowTurd I LIKE PRIUS'S

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    all i saw was this..


    then don't listen to it
     
  9. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    I could not disagree more with this temper tantrum thread. I stopped listening to Autoblog podcasts myself the second time around, because all they offered were favorable opinions according to the types of cars the panelists preferred. Cutting & pasting posts does not make anybody an expert IMO.

    All you are getting from Autoblog is the same rumor information that is floating around, cut & paste throughout the web, sometimes translated incorrectly by software.
     
  10. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    Report: Toyota RAV4 EV Scion iQ EV won't be sold to the general public *UPDATE — Autoblog Green

    I give them credit for correcting the story and issue a link to the previous post. I don't see why this member is so frustrated.

    2012 Toyota RAV4 EV will "definitely be sold to the general public"
     
  11. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    As one of the aforementioned panelists I'd like to say that I think the OP's points are well taken. Also, the defenders are on target. Ideally we would be more fully informed on the issues we'll discuss. Unfortunately, as is the nature of these things, the article lists are sometimes out only hours before the podcast is recorded and sometimes the "expert" in a certain topic is not able to participate.

    I think we aim for a balance of sharing interesting car news with some personal opinion/commentary. We should probably alot some time for correction of mistakes pointed out or discovered from previous shows each time we record.
     
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  12. Linda

    Linda

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    Steve,

    As one of the What Drive Us panelists who hadn't heard that the Tesla was being discontinued, let me say: I'm sorry.

    I try to keep up on "news." It's inevitable that some slips by any, or all of us. I admit, I don't have money to invest so I did not pay a lot of attention to Tesla's IPO report. I tried to be honest last week that I'd been surprised when it had been mentioned the week before. That didn't mean I hadn't read up on it in the interim, but frankly, my focus and interest is in new cars coming to market -- more choices for consumers -- than keeping track of the cancellation of old ones.

    I can also tell you that I am stretched pretty thin this summer. Our public library -- first ever in our city -- just opened June 29 with 38,000 square feet and more than 60,000 titles in stock, and I'm on the Friends board, so you can imagine the planning and work that was involved with that. I just resigned from our city's Resource Conservation Commission because I couldn't give it the five or ten hours a week that it deserved. I resigned this spring from the committee that plans our city's annual festival, because I couldn't give it the time it deserved either. I volunteer for the International Crane Foundation, am the neighborhood association secretary (my sixth year), volunteer as a Prius Expert on facebook (which is why I had the Plug-in Prius last summer – unrelated to What Drives Us), maintain a couple dozen hybrid and EV-related Yahoo groups, volunteer for a number of political causes and candidates in which I believe, try to keep as close to full-time as I can with my freelance work, and have been looking hard for a real job to provide some health insurance. And then there's Green Drive, which is full-time “plus†in the months leading up to the Expo.

    So, I'm sorry that I don't always go above and beyond the facts contained in whatever article we are discussing. I'm sorry that I let you down with my lack of knowledge of the Roadster, among other things. I can only offer that I was completely honest when I said that I hadn’t heard it was being discontinued – I did not try to pull the wool over your eyes and make you believe otherwise. There are only so many hours in the day, and the most current car news is not always on the top of my radar. Sometimes trivial things like an ill pet capture my attention instead. Again, I apologize for not being the best you want me to be on What Drives Us.

    I've always looked at the podcast as more of a discussion of topics than a reporting of hard news, and felt comfortable in that role. It's clear that you disagree about what this podcast should be. This is very valuable feedback, and I'm sure Russell and Danny appreciate it. Again, I apologize for my part in your dismay. I will strive to do better, or make room for someone who can.

    Best regards,
    Linda Weidemann
     
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  13. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    No need to apologize Linda, you are doing just fine. the show simply is not what the OP is looking for. now, his need to vent is his right and he has done so and will move on.

    but you said it perfectly. its not a news show. its a "talk" show. you occasionally bring on people in the industry. they talk, you ask questions and that is that. but having guests are not always possible, so you take news stories and comment on them.

    now; news stories are frequently inaccurate, misleading, incomplete or are written with a specific unbalanced agenda in mind. that is life. there are many that are ok with that and enjoy what you are doing and i am one of them.
     
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  14. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    About the temper tantrum thread, it could have been worst, remember the recent Driveby Prius pooding attack(my favorite story BTW)!, but no, the member chose to deal with the issue like an adult.

    PriusChat and what drives us were the best sources of information I found during the recalls, Steve wozniak on CNN who did not know how his DRCC works, James Sikes and the lady in Connecticut the following day.

    This was about the time I found PC, followed for a while and a member once I registered for the PHV. Nobody understands hybrids and the Prius as well as PC, what drive us and Prius owners group because it's like they are constantly testing, reviewing and feedback.

    And the press(God bless them) just reports anything they are told. If someone calls a local station and reports he had just witnessed a shark attack inside a 7-Eleven, this story is going national in less than 15 minutes.

    I read at least 2 badly written stories like this daily!
    The Electric Range Of The 2012 Plug-in Prius: Toyota's Excuse
     
  15. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I'm not even a car guy. Seriously. I'm just comic relief.

    I've listened to a few podcasts of other shows where the people were exceptionally well-versed in their field. I was bored to tears.

    My hat's off to Russell and Danny for having the ambition to start the show, build a website, enlist the help of their friends and record the show almost every freakin' week. The fact of the matter is that they didn't like other car shows out there so they decided to stop complaining and do one themselves.

    I'm not even going to apologize for the show because I have a blast recording it and I know there are some people who enjoy it. But I sincerely wish you the best of luck with your weekly podcast.
     
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  16. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I appreciate all of the work Tony, Evan, Linda, Jason, and of course Danny and Russell put into the show. As a regular listener of the show I find it very entertaining and informative. Maybe I find it more entertaining because I know these cats personally and think they are great people. *shrug*

    Maybe the show is not for everyone but I bet it provides useful information and entertainment for some. I suggest joining the live chat and helping to keep us on track like Dave does. ;)
     
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  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Steve,
    One thought occurred to me--every word of your criticism could be applied to, arguably, the most successful and popular car show of all time--Top Gear. They get partial facts, confuse technical information they don't understand, and provide a lot of entertainment. Do you turn it off for the same reasons?

    Look, I'd like to be as technically accurate and as well informed as possible for the podcasts, but honestly it's more about throwing info out there in a means that will entertain the listeners and inform them on things they might not have otherwise come across. And I think it is successful in doing that. I will strive, personally, to be better informed, but I'm not going to do so at the cost of the entertainment value of the show.
     
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  18. Sergiospl

    Sergiospl Senior Member

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    I look forward every week to the podcast with Danny, Russell, Tony, Linda, Jason and sometimes Evan. I believe that Prius owners, the websites and the podcast thru constructive criticisms will continue to help build each new Prius vehicle. Prius owners even have a list of improvements for future Prii on the site. Other car manufacturers pay for research information about their customers.
     
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  19. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    You are getting to the point that has pretty much been pussy footed around so far.:rockon:

    This whole Prius Chat thing is a collaborative effort and no one knows it all. Anyone coming here with the attitude that PC (or any other forum or blog) owes him perfect information is divorced from reality.
     
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  20. Russell Frost

    Russell Frost the whatdrives.us guy

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    buh bye

    I'll just offer the following as one of the creators of the show, the producer of the show, the news editor and the person who hosts it 50% of the time.

    I love each and every one of our listeners, and I mean that. I think anyone who spends the time to listen to what we do is wonderful and amazing. Obviously, we make the show to be listened to but we also make the show we want to make. Speaking only for myself, I no desire to make the most popular car show on the web. I want to make the coolest, most informative and fun show that I can make. And I know that, by definition, that's not going to appeal to some people. That's as it should be. As Microsoft says, that's a feature not a bug.

    As for the one specific allegation presented, that somehow one panelist's reaction to story was the proverbial straw, well, that's one mighty weak camel. And there's not much I can or would care to do to change that. And I think it's stinks of someone looking for an excuse to belittle the show. The idea that the Tesla story is somehow the biggest or most important story of the year is a rather subjective observation. Maybe in your world. I think that we've already seen more important stories and will see some more before the year is out.

    Of course we're interested in presenting facts and I think we do a very good job of it. When we're wrong, we make corrections and admit to our mistakes. I think we're very good at labeling our opinions and speculations differently from factual content we're discussing.

    I have enormous respect for the wit, knowledge and wisdom of every panelist (as well my co-host). There's already a car show with two know-it-alls as hosts. It's a great show but I have no desire to re-invent that wheel. What I wanted to do was bring together people who I enjoy listening to. All of whom know more than me on a wide range of subjects.

    In short, thanks for feedback. If that's really the way you feel and the reasons for your described actions then by all means, enjoy your BBQ.
     
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