Ok is this for real or just snake oil?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Fuel Economy' started by drowssap, Aug 20, 2014.

  1. drowssap

    drowssap Member

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    So I do not have any affiliation with this company. I found them on craigslist and if you choose to check out their ad....here is the link.
    Toyota Prius Lithium battery upgrade system 120mpg

    They are offering a lithium battery swap and are claiming by doing so you will achieve 120 mpg and they will do it for $2400. I would like to know what you guys think about what he is offering as well as some input regarding a swap like this. Is this a worthwhile upgrade? Better yet....is the idea behind the tech legit?
     
  2. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    "So good, you don't need a warranty" scared the hell out of me.
     
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  3. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Yeah, that claim really jumped out at me too. :eek:

    SCH-I535
     
  4. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Snake oil, with plenty of outright lies. While claiming to fit in the factory battery case without modification, the only in-car picture shows something vastly larger than the factory case, and unfinished. The other pictures show something larger still, that won't fit in the trunk.

    The only in-car picture is of a Gen2. Your Gen3 is different.

    The only way to get a Gen2 or Gen3 non-plugin Prius to 120 mpg is to convert it to a plug-in, and play games with the number of miles driven on plug-in EV miles. It cannot be done on gasoline alone, at least until (approximately) Gen-10.
     
  5. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    "The original battery is very unreliable and not very practical."

    Do you really want to buy this from someone who knows nothing about the Prius or Prius Batteries???
     
  6. MarcSmith

    MarcSmith Active Member

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    I'd be scared....

    Some types of lithium batteries, especially the lithium polymer batteries can be dangerous when not handled/charged properly.

    Plus...any reputable company would not be advertising on craigslist...

    I love all of the claims...
     
  7. Robert Holt

    Robert Holt Senior Member

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    ^^^ agree!
    Some lithium batteries can explode and burn with the intensity of roughly a magnesium flare. Do you want that next to your gas tank?
    Also the 120 mpg claim is vastly exaggerated .
    I vote "snake oil" and strongly urge you not to do this, especially when current Prii have a proven track record.
     
  8. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    Outside of the fact that most of their "faqs" are simply wrong or subjective opinion?

    So if we are dealing with opinion, here's mine.

    Toyota built the Prius. On my standard Gen 3 Prius, Toyota designed the whole HSD system including ECU and Computer to work with a NiMh battery. I certainly wouldn't want to be hooking the whole system up to something else.

    And yes, somehow the exclamation that their system is "so good" I don't need a warranty strikes me like "The White Star Line" telling me The Titanic doesn't need life boats because it's unsinkable.
     
  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i have lithium batteries, and i don't get 120 mpg.(n)
     
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  10. drowssap

    drowssap Member

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    I have to say that reading the ad was fun for me. At first I thought " wow what did I stumble across!" But then I started to get really scared after reading some of the hilarious claims! Thanks very much for everyone's input!
     
  11. usnavystgc

    usnavystgc Die Hard DIYer and Ebike enthusiast.

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    This is pure snake oil and here's why.

    The Standard Prius is not a good candidate for PHEV conversion for many reasons.
    1) It is designed as a gasoline (primary) car with electric assist. It is for this reason that the electric motors do not have enough power to safely propel the car. With electric mode only, the car is really underpowered and not safe to drive on the streets (to prove this, try taking off on electric alone, if converted, you will have a little more ev power for takeoff but, not much more).
    2) The Prius has advanced, high-tech monitoring systems (called ECU's) that all work together to make this engineering marvel work. Adding more battery capacity requires modifying what one ECU sees which causes multiple problems with other ECU's.

    There are other numerous reasons why the Prius shouldn't be converted unless you're going to gut the HSD and add an electric drive system that can handle the requirements. The stock Prius electrical system cannot handle the requirements on its own. It needs the gas engine and the gas engine needs the electrical system. They have a symbiotic relationship.

    These batteries shown are the same ones used by Nissan Leaf. I believe this is the same company that sells these batteries on Ebay. They likely have a bunch of them and are trying to get rid of them.
     
  12. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    There are companies swapping Nissan Leaf packs in place of the Prius HV pack. But it certainly would cost more than $2,700.
    I'm not quite sure what is going on in the photos. That's quite a bundle of wires. leaf prius pack.jpg
     
  13. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    And whatever that wire bundle is, it is not completed
     
  14. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    The website says
    " some photos are used for reference and education however the work is still done "
    No capitalization. No punctuation.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it's vegas baby!(y)
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    I endorse all of the prior comments and would offer these:
    1. How do you match the LiON charge/discharge curve to the NiMH curve? The Prius uses the slight-slope, NiMH curve to guesstimate the SOC. But the LiON batteries I've seen are exceptionally flat and have a different internal resistance that makes adjustments based upon load . . . imprecise. So how does one ever know how much charge remains in this drop-in battery.
    2. How are LiON aging effects handled? Unlike NiMH, some LiON chemistries have a built-in aging function not found in NiMH batteries when they are not heat-stressed.
    3. Ever try to sell a modified Prius with an unsupported, after-market, modification? I plan to drive our Prius 'until the wheels fall off' and I already have a vanity plate, "C-52MPG". Anyone bright enough to carry on with our 2003 Prius is also bright enough to run away from it with their 'hair on fire.' So the first step would be to return the car to original condition (or hide the mods.)
    Now I want to endorse what they have claimed to do. It takes a lot of guts and initiative to start a business venture like this. I give them an A+ for initiative and honestly wish them good luck. Just I have too much education and experience with both of our Prius to want their product. HOWEVER, I have this Ebike with a 48V, lead-acid battery and it needs more range.

    Right now, I'm looking at some of my rehydrated NiMH batteries to extend the 10 miles to 15 miles with a plug-in at work to make it home. But that is something to discuss another day in another thread. <grins>

    Bob Wilson
     
  17. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    It seems like they do both hybrid pack rebuilds (with nimh cells) and have a 6kW lithium plugin upgrade based on the website. A 6kW plugin conversion for $2700 is pretty cheap, but I certainly wouldn't be inclined to try it based on how they (mis)represent themselves online.

    Rob
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    they make a lot of good points.
     
  19. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    What I find interesting is there is absolutely no indication that they connect these batteries to anything....like a charging plug. You spend (about???) $3700 and you get to carry around a pile of "rebuilt mystery batteries" as they are now busy selling your OEM NiMh battery. No wonder they "come to you". Chasing them down in a hybrid with a removed battery works to their favor.
     
  20. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    But Bob, before you give them an A+ for initiative and wish them good luck, shouldn't some weight be given to both the validity of the service and product they are supposedly trying to sell?

    Some of their claims and opinions are flat out wrong and/or ridiculous.

    I have no idea what their motive actually is, Whether this is a sincere business venture or not. But the needle points a lot closer to "Snake Oil" than it does "Sincere".

    I won't endorse Snake Oil...they would have a lot to prove to me first.
     
    #20 The Electric Me, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2014
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