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OK to mix Transmission Fluid after Dealer didn't use WS

Discussion in 'Prius c Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by pasta4breakfast, Nov 18, 2023.

  1. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    Hi all,

    In 2018, I authorized the dealer to do a transmission fluid flush on my 2013 prius C that had 86,152 miles on it at the time. The vehicle now has about 150,000 miles on it. I was planning on having an independent mechanic that specializes in Asian vehicles do a drain and fill with Toyota WS ATF in the next year at around 160,000 miles. However, after looking at my invoice from 2018, it looks like the dealership didn't use Toyota WS ATF. The parts listed on the invoices says:

    - 10 ATF MULTI-GRADE ATF - list: $2.79, total: $27.90
    - 1 VP094 TRANSMISSION FLUSH KIT - list $26.95, total: $26.95
    I attached a photo of the part of the invoice describing the transmission service

    I don't know exactly what "multi-grade" ATF means at a dealership, but I looked up the VP094 and it appears to Valvoline product. Thus, I suspect the "multi-grade" refers to a Valvoline multivehicle ATF. It looks like they listed the fluid at $2.79 a quart, which seems too cheap to be WS. I have never noticed a problem with the transmission. What do you think I should do?

    Option 1: proceed with Toyota WS ATF drain and fill as planned.
    Option 2: get the transmission flushed at the Asian Vehicle Mechanic or a dealer, but insist on WS. I am nervous to do a flush on a vehicle with this many miles though.
    Option 3: Call the old dealer and see if I can find what fluid they used and get a drain and fill with the same fluid.
    Option 4: Just leave the transmission alone.

    I live in an apartment, don't own tools to work on a car and am not mechanically inclined, so doing it myself is not an option. I will probably keep this vehicle another 3 years, but there is a chance I will keep it for much longer. It is still on the original HV battery.
     

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    #1 pasta4breakfast, Nov 18, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
  2. ColoradoCrow

    ColoradoCrow Active Member

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    Option 1 insist on the pink OEM Toyota Fluid. Worth it.
     
  3. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    An ATF flush doesn't do anything for these CVT transmissions. A simple drain & fill will get 99% of the old ATF out of these CVTs.

    The only reason to flush a transmission is if it has a torque converter. A torque converter will hold half of a transmissions' ATF. The only way to get 95+% of the old ATF out, is to do a flush. No torque converters on your CVT.

    Hope this helps..

    PS. your transmission will take, just shy of 4 quarts of Toyota WS ATF.
     
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  4. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    Thanks. It is good to know that a simple drain and fill will change almost all of the fluid. With that in mind, I think I might want to do this even sooner to get the OEM fluid back into the car as soon as possible. It has been over 60,000 miles anyway, so it isn't like I am doing it that early. I have been using this local shop the last couple oil changes on my 2020 Prius Prime. They allow me to bring my own Toyota OEM filter and oil and charge me $30 for the labor. It's no cheaper than a special at the dealer, but I like doing that because they give me back any leftover oil if there is any, so I know exactly what oil and how much they put in. I just got so tired of Toyota of Orange service advisors outright lying about what the tech found on my car while trying to upsell services. I assume this new shop would allow me to bring in the Toyota WS ATF and simply charge me for the labor. If I give them 4 quarts, it sounds like it would be almost impossible for them to overfill it enough to have any problems.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Even then I wouldn't flush. When manufacturers spec a transmission fluid interval, they're fully aware of what percent will drain, and accordingly set the interval more frequently.

    The one time I'd do a flush would be when something wrong had been put in. I once absented mindedly poured about a cup of motor oi into an automatic, before I woke up. That time I did a three-fold flush.

    For OP, think now might be a good time to do a flush. Or maybe not, just do a single, thorough drain, refill with toyota ATF WS.

    There's an even chance the dealership did use the correct fluid, just the service writer is out-to-lunch. It's a little amazing a dealership would use anything else, considering Owner's Manual has strong caution against using any alternate fluid.
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Nov 18, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
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  6. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    I did a second ATF change on my old 2012 Prius C; just before an uninsured motorist totaled it out. It was around 60K miles of usage, and was very clean and bright pink; as expected. It was a lot cleaner than the 20K mile, initial drain and fill, very unexpected. That being said; there's plenty of Prius owners with more than 200K miles and have never touch their ATF. So very stout, reliable transmissions on these cars, even when abused. I consider not changing all fluids every 100K miles (required or not), abuse - everything eventually wears out. Getting contaminants out and refreshing the anti-corrosion chemical packets within those fluids is cheap insurance from costly repairs.

    If you get a chance; take a picture of the mystery ATF the dealer put into your car and post it. That should give you an idea of how well that mystery ATF was holding up or not. $2.79 a quart seems a bit low for ATF, even in 2018 prices, unless it was cheap crappy Dextron III - which your dealership should've known better...

    Gen 4 Prime ATF drain plug | PriusChat
     
    #6 BiomedO1, Nov 18, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2023
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  7. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    Just curious: why do a flush on a Prius transmission?
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Because he thinks the wrong fluid is in there?
     
  9. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Pretty disappointing a TOYOTA dealership did this. Also amazing the invoice is for 10 quarts of ATF. I wonder how they fit that into the case. Hopefully the tech did it right and it's just the 'advisor' who is the idiot.
     
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  10. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The description on the invoice looks like “boiler plate” text, its word-perfect (which is rare) and uses expressions like “where applicable”.

    there’s a possibility they did it by the book; the only issue is the invoice language?

    Repair Manual info on transaxle fluid change is in one of my signature links IIRC (on a phone that turn it landscape to see signature).
     
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  11. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Unfortunately; that would mean that the dealership committed fraud - sold 10 quarts and only used 4. If they place the 6 unused quarts in the trunk of the car; that should even out the scales...

    This wouldn't be the first time I've caught a dealership, with their "hands in the cookie jar". About a decade back, a dealership body shop repaired a fender bender incident. A city truck backed into the front end of my car. The shop billed their insurance company for new hood hinges and didn't replace them. I noticed the hood vibrating at highway speeds. Pulled over to make sure it was secured and found loose hinges at the pivot points; not at the mounting points. The staff at the body shop acted like they were doing me a favor, by painting and replacing those hinges. Told me it would be at least a month before they could get to it. Their attitude did a 180, when I pointed out that they billed the insurance company for new hinges. The work was done in about an hour, on appointment the next day.
     
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  12. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    FWIW, liters of Toyota ATF WS are around $11~12 CDN apiece up here.
     
  13. Doug McC

    Doug McC Active Member

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    Sorry, massive brain fart!
     
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  14. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    So I spoke with the mechanic yesterday while getting an oil change on my Prius Prime and they said they keep Toyota WS ATF in stock, so I don't have to bring any. They will do a drain and fill on my wife's Prius C for $110. I plan to do it in the next few weeks and will try to get a picture of the old mystery fluid.

    My 2020 prius prime has a little under 73,000 miles on it and the ATF hasn't been changed yet. I figure if nothing goes wrong with the prius C after the drain and fill, I will have them do it on my Prius Prime at the next oil change (~82,000 mile mark). I have only done a few oil changes with this mechanic and that is pretty easy to check the work with a dipstick. Since I won't be able to easily check the transmission fluid level after the their drain and fill, I want to allow enough time to see any symptoms of incompitent work before they do this service on my newer, more expensive car. Do you think driving about 4,000 miles over 5-6 months on the prius C is plenty of time to notice any problems if the drain and fill was done incorrectly? Would noticible symptoms appear way sooner and thus I should do my Prius Prime sooner, like a few weeks after?
     
  15. BiomedO1

    BiomedO1 Senior Member

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    Transmission should take around 3.5 quarts. As long as they don't use the wrong ATF and don't under fill it, it should be fine - very simple reliable transmission. Best of all, very difficult to screw-up the job. If they're not sure what to do, just watch one of the online videos.
    IMHO, yes if they screwed something up, it should show up within 4000 miles.
     
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Did you ever ask them about your suspicion? I doubt they'd use anything but Toyota ATF WS. For starters the Owner's Manuals warn that anything else could damage the transmission, and they're Toyota's front line.
     
  17. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    I haven't spoken with the dealership that did the transmission service in 2018. I could try calling them, but the service was so long ago. I guess they would at least know what fluid they are using currently. I know they don't use Toyota brake fluid, but I don't think the brand of that fluid is very important.
     
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  18. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Yes, for brake fluid owner's manual says any DOT3 is ok. But for transaxle fluid the owner's manual says emphatically, to use Toyota ATF WS only, and that anything else may damage the transaxle. I'm sceptical of a dealership in particular going against that.

    FWIW, there's also a bulletin by Toyota, saying to only use ATF WS from freshly opened bottles. Guess it's hydroscopic or something, similar to brake fluid; if you DIY you want to open the bottle and use it right away, just recycle any left over at an oil recycle place.

    There's some transaxle fluid replacement tips in my signature btw. On a phone turn it landscape to see signature.
     
  19. Sonic_TH

    Sonic_TH Active Member

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    You mean eCVT, Priuses do not use CVT, they have a planetary gear set.
     
  20. pasta4breakfast

    pasta4breakfast Junior Member

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    So I called the dealership that did the transmission flush in 2018. I told them about my invoice and asked if they use Toyota WS ATF or something else. They said they "use WS, but it's from Valvoline." :(
     
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