OK TOYOTA, Now give us our diesel hybrid.

You could look up the power of a gallon of gas and the weight and come up with that number. Power to weight ratio in the battery is important.

 

Why don't you try that and tell me what you find?

[hint for the viewers at home: No such thing exists.]

REPEAT: You claim that a higher energy battery (more kWh) improves mileage in hybrid mode. Prove just that.

 

I think you mean the energy in a gallon of gasoline, not power. Power is energy per unit time, so we would need to know how fast you will burn the gasoline.

If we take energy per unit weight or energy per unit volume we get the two common energy density figures. This is easy to do with any energy storage device, be it a tank of gasoline, a battery, or a cylinder of CNG.

Tom

 

WHO tells us diesel = longcancer
So please no hybride diesel

-Htc Tapatalk ( sorry for auto spell correct )

 

WHO (World Health Organization) doesn't tell us that about clean Diesel in European and US autos today. The non sulfur fuel, the urea injection, the exhaust filters make the Diesels clean and safe.

 

Someone else was asking for energy in a gallon of gasoline so maybe they could clarify what they meant so folks could help them answer their question.

 

Nope
Just less
The exhuast filters make even smaller particuls penetrating blood stream
Injection of ad bleu is just a addition that you need to jeep feuled

-Htc Tapatalk ( sorry for auto spell correct )

 

"Just less" exactly. That's why the WHO study you cited doesn't apply to the clean auto Diesels under dicusssion. A 2012 Diesel Golf has fewer particulates than a 2012 gasoline Corolla.

 

I don't know whether that is true or not, but it definitely has more NOx and particulates than a prius. Some of us bought the hybrid for the low tailpipe emissions. The WHO study did not look at the new standards, but normal gasoline cars like the corolla likely do spew extra carcinagens out, they just are much cleaner than old diesels.

But lets look at some figure to see why vw thinks the math doesn't add up. The prius engine has a peak efficiency of 38%, and the recent vw diesels had 42%. I don't know if the 2012 gulf has higher or lower, but at the efficient times the diesel is about 10% more efficient. Diesel fuel also has about 10% more energy. The big improvements in diesel are low load, where the diesel can go into lean mode, but the hybrid can keep gas engines more efficient. That leaves us at 21% better fuel economy, but its likely a little lower since the engine is heavier and makes the whole car heavier, lets say 20%. YOur diesel prius now gets 60mpg instead of 50mpg, with the biggest improvements in city mpg.

But wait, the diesel adds price for tall that pollution control, the turbos di and stronger block. Price to consumers about $2000 more, someone correct this if its wrong. You also have increased maintenance costs and need to fill up with urea, etc. NVH is worse also, especially when you are starting them and a hybrid starts often. At 15000/miles per year you would save 50 gallons a year for 60mpg versus 50. After 10 years @$5 gas you have saved $2500, but likely spent much more for extra maintenance. The numbers just don't add up. Going from a jetta to a jetta diesel is quite a different story, the fuel savings are much higher. Which brings us to the jetta hybrid, a car vw decided to do in tsi instead of tdi. Adding some of the stuff from diesel like turbo charging and direct injection can increase fuel economy of gas engines. In toyota's labs they have such an engine running at 43% efficiency. You can add that to get the diesel efficiency boost without the the extra pollution equipment and weight. The other thought is for about $1000 more than the diesel prius you can buy the prius phv, which saves more gas each year

 

Of course. A Prius gets 50 mpg, the Diesel Golf 34 mpg.

You need to compare vehicles that have approximately the same MPG. To the point raised here, the WHO study was in regard to industrial unfiltered sulfur fuel Diesels not the modern, non-sulfur fuel, urea and particulate filtered modern Diesels found in cars like the 117 mpg Volvo V60 Diesel/Hybrid/EV. Modern auto Diesels from Mercedes, Audi/VW, Volvo are comparable to gas engines in emissions.

Easiest way to compare is go to www.fueleconomy.gov and compare. There is a tab for doing emissions and particulate output. [/quote]

 

Battery is not abused, Toyota designed into the s/w to disconnect battery draw, and it is very conservative.

DBCassidy

 

Jusy wait until further in the 2012 year.

DBCassidy

 

Exactly. Like saying you are "abusing" the car by driving it. Hello!!??

 

Just ask Fuzzy.

DBCassidy

 

Ask and ye shall receive --
Understanding NiMH hypercycles (to prolong Prius HV battery life)

Understanding NiMH hypercycles

 

He was being facetious. I see why.

 

[/quote]
I tried the link, it particulates did not come up.
We have had past comparisons and the prius even scaled does much better than these clean diesels. The hybrid cycle greatly reduces emissions from gas vehicles, but hasn't shown the reduction on diesel vehicles. On the diesels you can keep adding more polution controls, but that costs money for very little benefit. A plug-in hybrid whether gasoline or diesel will even more greatly reduce unhealthy tailpipe emissions.

 

Perhaps the Volvo V60 specifications can help you answer your questions since it is a Diesel hybrid. The links are further up the thread.

 

Energy in a gallon of gasoline makes complete sense, and is well known. It was your comment about the power in a gallon of gas that was nonsensical.

Tom

 

The person that asked that question will be happy to know that, hopefully they will read your message. You might want to respond directly to the question though to make sure they get the answer they were looking for.