On Being ICE'd

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by El Dobro, Aug 3, 2016.

  1. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Another Robert Llewellyn video on Fully Charged.


     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    In a perfect world, such behavior would be treated the same way as non-handicap parking violations. So the first thing is to find out if such behavior has the same standing. Parking tickets are the first response. But sometimes you want to do something else:
    • block park them in - well this could result in a confrontation. In my neck of the woods, being armed would be a good thing.
    • let the air out of tires - well this is a little self defeating since it leads to retaliation in the future.
    • leave a sheet metal screw in treads - same as above
    Perhaps the best solution is to use a tire gauge and let say 5 lbs of air out. It won't be readily visible but it will reduce their mileage. They will pay at the pump. Probably best done with a hand pump in case they come back,'I noticed you had a low tire and was just topping it off. Would you like to use my tire pump?'

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. GREEN BAE

    GREEN BAE Junior Member

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    I didn't watch the video but that some nasty thoughts you got going on. very unprius like we love everyone.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  4. Ashlem

    Ashlem Senior Member

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    Well, they could just enforce the parking spots by having the police monitor those spots regularly and ticket non-EV owners parking in an EV spot. As a bonus, they could rake in a lot of money too. And if it's not already a law, they could make one.

    EV Cash Cow: One Charging Spot Generates $27,000 In Fines

    Yes, I realize it's impossible for them to monitor every spot. But if people start complaining about certain areas more often, and it's near where they would normally patrol anyway, it wouldn't hurt to educate the cops on when a spot is being ICE'd.
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Hummmm, perhaps the EVSE can detect a car in the parking place and light a spot light. The light goes out when the car plugs in and stays off as long as it is plugged into the car:
    • Aids the plug-in driver as some places are a little 'dark'.
    • Draws attention if the car is not plugged in say by pulsating ... drawing attention of the meter maids.
    Bob Wilson
     
  6. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    I've said it before and I'll say it again, put EV charging spots in the least desirable locations in the parking lot. ;)
     
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  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    They likely ended up close to the building simply by being cheaper to run electric too.
     
  8. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Yeah that point is brought up but there is usually security lighting (and thus wiring) throughout the parking lot. I think the choice spot locations are more for green marketing and/or to lure customers to specific businesses than installation costs.
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I doubt the parking lot lighting circuits have sufficient wiring for a usable charge in the time a customer would use the business.
    I've seen outlets at the light poles of a parking lot in upper NY for engine block heaters, but the business was a hotel.
     
  10. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    Previous discussions have noted high voltage is commonly used. IDK for sure. Here's a couple of links that seem to indicate 277v is a common for lighting.

    why 277 volts for lighting? - Electric power & transmission & distribution - Eng-Tips
    If you are running a long lighting circuit, such as one for a parking lot, you are better off using 277 V because of the voltage drop. 277 V also requires less current for a given lighting load, so it is advantageous if your load is large.


    The Light Source | Why 277 volts for lighting? | Bulbs.com

    277 Volts is the input power of choice for most industrial and commercial applications. High voltage lighting is better from an efficiency standpoint. Higher voltage means less current, which means less power loss from resistance as stated in Ohm’s and Joule’s laws.

    FWIW
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Of course, now that LED commercial lighting is coming down in price...

    Going from the comments of the first link, the parking light circuit is likely 277V, but can be low amperage.
    "for example on 120 volts you can run about 14 light fixtures on a 20 amp breaker with number 12 gage wire but on a 277 volt circuit you can run 30 of the same wattage light fixture from a 20 amp breaker and 12 gage wire."
    So the light circuit might only to be support one or two chargers going at the low speed rate of level 1 home charging, and then slower when the lights come on.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Of course, the chargers would also need to be rated for 277V input. Are any of them so rated?
     
  13. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Back to the original problem, dealing with ICE cars blocking access to a charger. We had a similar problem in the past with people stealing our yard signs.

    So I put on long sleeve shirt, gloves, and harvested some poison ivy in small plastic bags. Then I rubbed the ivy on the signs and for good measure, left some draped over the top. No problem with missing signs after that.

    Bob Wilson
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    So, are going to rub poison ivy on car's door handle or gas cap if they ICE you?
     
  15. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Hummmm, what an interesting idea.

    Bob Wilson
     
  16. Dimitrij

    Dimitrij Active Member

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    Block two charging bays with a gorgeous blue VelociRaptor and get a priority ride to the impound lot.

     
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  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    A lot of electric cars can remotely notify their drivers that the charge is completed, right? I’m assuming it’s widely available and popular, but maybe not 100% for various reasons.

    Can the public chargers themselves send a back-up notification? They might not have technical awareness that the battery is full, but they would be able to detect that a car was still plugged in and not drawing power, associated with billing account x and contact info y.

    It might not be that hard to add technology to determine whether the space in front of the public charger is physically occupied or not.

    With that addition, the charger would theoretically have the ability to warn users via text or email when charging had stopped for any reason, and that would frequently double as a courtesy notification that it’s time to go downstairs and free up the bay for the next EV.

    …and also stages things rather nicely for ratting out the illegal parking while providing documentation in real time. With a picture of the license plate, automatic summons delivery isn’t out of reach...
     
  18. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    yes - the chargepoint system for instance will send a text or email stating your car is either drawing little or no power.
    .
     
  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The other One Percenter.....

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    I can understand the insecurity and frustration of arriving at a charging station with not many amps left in the can and finding it blocked by a 4x4 Dodge Dually......but really.....
    Poison ivy?
    Sheet metal screws?
    Deflating tires?
    Blocking petrol pumps?
    ....but of course "nobody watching this would do this, because they're much too nice!"

    There's a procedure hereabouts for dealing with what I consider to be a parallel crime, which is parking in a handicap space.
    Granted......many of the people who USE handicap spots are probably the human equivalent of a PHEV.
    They don't "have" to park there, but.....;)
    Legally?
    People are not encouraged to block in vehicles, smear door handles with poisonous plants, place building materials under tires, or deflate tires.
    Deflating tires is especially egregious since it might lead to increased petrol use and further accelerate AGW.

    I'm thinking that a better way forward would be to notify the local constabulary and have THEM enforce the law....whatever that looks like in your locale.
    Remember....in many parts of the country EV parking is the legal equivalent of "stork' parking, which is to say there IS no specific legal entitlement........and we see even in some threads here in PC what can occur absenting legal constraint.
    State laws are slowly changing - sometimes for the better.
    Meanwhile?
    Some brick and mortar stores are clinging to life by trying to attract customers through amenities like free charging stations - because early EV adopters still have more bucks than people like me who are more or less forced to be gassers because they don't replace their cars pentiannually "just 'because."
    One of these that's closest to me actually puts their charging stations towards the middle of the parking lot. Far enough away so that parking spot vultures will not be attracted to them but close enough so that self-entitled EV drivers will not be insulted by having to walk a little further away from their free electricity.
    "Local" Whole Foods (the closest one to me is 35+ miles away) seem to use this strategery.

    Me?
    I think I'll continue to drive gassers for a little while longer, and try not to improperly/illegally use spots reserved for Handicap, Stork, LEO, Combat Wounded, EV, Gold Star, Motorcycle/Bicycles, The Unhoused, etc...
    That will probably leave me one or two spaces in the very furthest reaches of the parking spot, but I will be rewarded with better cardiovascular health and the benefit of a relaxing walk.

    If my petrol station of choice is blocked in by a swarm of EVangelists all gathered in front of the loo gossiping about how efficient their cars are.......I'll go to one of the petrol stations across the street. :D
     
    #19 ETC(SS), Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  20. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    The original post is 3 going on 4 years old.
    Am I being too optimistic that maybe things have gotten a little better? Probably.

    From the original post, I think the guy is being too nice.
    I wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt in most cases. There is just too much to see in an electric vehicle bay. Most are painted very obviously, with signs, and the charging unit itself. ICE vehicles that are being parked in those spots, IMO almost exclusively are doing it to be rude, make a point-they think, or with careless, and aggressive indifference.
    I don't see how anyone innocently or accidentally parks in an electric vehicle charging spot.

    Yes, I think it should be handled similarly to handicap parking violations.
    Not against owners wrongly parking in the spot being fined and/or their vehicles being towed.

    Pet peeve rant of mine? You can stop now if you don't want to read it or have read it before.
    BUT...
    I use to have to transport my ailing mother, who was physically incapacitated. Wheel Chair bound. She did have a handicap parking permit, which I kept in my vehicle as I was the one transporting her.
    #1. I NEVER used the permit, unless I was actually transporting her, and had her with me. As tempting as it was, on some crowded days, to pull into the open handicap spot, and use the permit, even if I was alone, I NEVER did it. It just didn't seem right.
    #2. It was very frustrating to me, the number times I would take her to a shopping center or an entertainment venue, and find all the handicap spots taken, either by vehicles that showed no permits, or even I would say vehicles that DID have permits.
    I would be beaten to spots, with vehicles that DID have permits. But sometimes were huge trucks, 3ft. off the ground. I'd watch as they would hang their permit off the rear view mirror and then HOP out of their truck, and briskly walk in the store. Seemingly perfectly mobile and able.
    Often at popular sites, I would end up having to park a long distance from the entrance, in a tight spot, then load my mother into her wheelchair and push her a long distance just to reach the event.
    It was very frustrating.
    #3. Drifting a bit more off topic. I hate it at supermarkets when again very healthy looking people and/or especially kids, take the electric wheelchair carts to use or "play with".
    To me it's HORRIBLE parenting to let your kid use those carts, for just amusement going through the store. I've watched as indifferent parents just Zombie shuffle away, with their perfectly healthy kids, following in an electric chair.
    Those are ideally provided for people that REALLY need them. They're not toys. IMO if you don't need them? Don't use them, so others that really do need them...will have them available and charged.
    If you've read this far, thanks for letting me vent on this. My mother has passed away, but these memories are still frustrating to me.
    It's not world event shaping...but casual indifference to following respectful protocol and often rules and laws in regards to things like this? Is something I would like to see less of.
    If that means levying fines and towing vehicles...so be it.

    I no longer own a Prius, I've never owned an electric vehicle. I would NEVER park in a charging station spot.
     
    #20 The Electric Me, Jan 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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