On Memorial Day, do we honor the confederate soldiers?

The idea that anyone "gives their life" for something they believe in
means that they're out there trying to KILL someone who believes
differently. That in itself is complete bullshit WRONG, and reflects
the total lack of tolerance that the human race has exhibited for
thousands of years. Why anyone should be called upon to *honor*
people who have fallen for this level of scam is beyond me.
.
Of course this is just my opinion, and you can buy it or not buy it
as you choose, but if you suddenly feel an urge to come kill me
because I said it then you're no better than any of the rest of them.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 29 2006, 06:30 PM) [snapback]262575[/snapback]</div>

HDRYGAS said it best..and may I add something. I was a war protestor in the vietnam era and went anyway...I was a Army Ranger in CuChi 1967-68..lost lots of friends both American and Vietnamese...a giant waste of life... for what? So that we can go the Saigon hilton 40 years later? Iraq..all these kids getting slaughtered for what? To free the Iraqis? Ask them what they think of our western ways. And to answer another thread here about why we support Isreal...well ask yourseld this...If we don't stand for somehting in the mideast, we won't have any friends there..inlcuding the Iraguis...happy memorial day, i did my part what about you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(powrfuel @ May 29 2006, 09:48 PM) [snapback]262584[/snapback]</div>

powrfuel...welcome to PriusChat...since you quoted me, I must assume your last line "I did my part, what about you?" is for me. If it's not, then I'm sorry. I was only stating a fact that the South does not celebrate Memorial Day with fervor. That's all.

I'm currently serving on active duty in the Air Force. Have been for the past 18 years. So I'm doing my part. Was that last line for me????

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eyeguy13 @ May 29 2006, 07:40 PM) [snapback]262579[/snapback]</div>

I lived in the deep south in 52-53 when segregation was still a fact. I was a "damn Yankee", in the 6th grade. That was a different world from where I grew up in Ohio. There we kept segregation of Negros, Latinos, under the carpet. Not to mention splitting up a lot of the various immigrant groups. No one learned their mother tongue, but we could all swear in 6 languages. Our mother and fathers worked. In the mill the plant etc. I northern Florida there was blatant segregation and I did not get it. That gets you in trouble. To this day I remember when I was invited to the local high school football game on Friday night. The band marched out on the field and played 6 bars of "The Star Spangled Banner" while the Stars and Strips were run up the staff as quickly as I have ever, to this day seen it done. Following that on a flag pole of equal height the band played Dixie, and every one sang, all of the verses (there are verses!). After the National Anthem I sat down like a good Yankee and immediately got a knee in the back of my head by an adult. That is when I learned that sometimes you stand while Dixie is being played. People in the West may not get this but there remains passion for the "War of Northern Aggression". You had not better mention Grant as a hero let alone Sherman. We really paid for the compromise of slavery in the framing of the Constitution. It may have been a necessary compromise but it was a deadly one. Spare us from any further compromises of that magnitude. We continue to pay. My hand as a damn Yankee is out to my friends below the Mason Dixon line. Peace.

 

Oddly, I've never thought about this question. My first inclination is to agree with burritos original post. But not because of who did or didn't believe in slavery.

From the moment Fort Sumter was fired upon, those who supported the CSA and swore allegiance to its flag ceased to be citizens of the USA. Their sole purpose was to establish a separate nation. They became traitors en masse.

And yet...civil wars distort this judgement, as they distort so many beliefs and feelings. It is probably no less anguishing today to make this judgement than it was then to choose sides in many cases. I'll have to think about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ghostofjk @ May 30 2006, 01:04 AM) [snapback]262640[/snapback]</div>

Prior to the Civil War, there was no reason that a state, having joined the Union, could not later choose to leave. It wasn't until the Civil War made it clear, that like the Mafia, it won't ever be easy to un-join the Union. Furthermore States had stronger governments and stronger senses of identity, before easy travel and communication blended everyone together to a much greater degree, and the Federal government was much weaker. Words like "patriotism and "traitor" were much more likely to be used in the context of one's State rather than in the context of the union between the States.

The Civil War was not fought so much over the issue of slavery as it was to hold the Union together (or break it apart). And in his address at Gettysburg, President Lincoln did not single out the Union soldiers as heroes and the Confederacy as traitors. Instead he said that all brave men who fought and died there had consecrated the ground, and he promised that none of them had died in vain:

And in his Second Inaugural address, Lincoln continued, essentially saying that both sides were made up of good men caught up in a tragic conflict:

So if you piss on the Confederate soldiers as traitors, you are also pissing on President Lincoln, or at least on what what are widely considered some of his greatest speeches....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ May 29 2006, 06:29 PM) [snapback]262473[/snapback]</div>

AMEN!!!!!! I find people who show the confederate flag to be proclaiming their bigotry and anti-americanism. They are screaming "I am a LOSER"! It is NO different than flying a swastika.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(grasshopper @ May 29 2006, 04:09 PM) [snapback]262447[/snapback]</div>

Kinda like Linus once observed in "Peanuts", huh: "It doesn't matter what you believe, as long as you're sincere!". Perhaps you want us to honor all those brave Nazis and Communists who died for their beliefs?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ May 29 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]262581[/snapback]</div>

Just make sure that if ever your life is endangered by a criminal and a policeman comes to help you, yell this very loudly "I don't approve of your risking your life for me....only stop the criminal from murdering me if you can do it safely" This would be even more appropriate if it was a terrorist or other "political" foe. But then again, needing money is a socio-political issue, isn't it?

I would appreciate the thoughtfulness.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(richard schumacher @ May 30 2006, 01:14 PM) [snapback]262806[/snapback]</div>

Yes, now you’re catching on, they were humans too. We are all nothing but pawns anyway.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(s.e.tx_parrothead @ May 29 2006, 10:25 PM) [snapback]262572[/snapback]</div>

Truly well said.

I never served in the US Armed Forces, my father was a sniper in the US Army, my grandparents could not serve. I will always and forever support US troops sent in harms way and their mission regardless of who sends them - I think that sending troops to war must be one of the most difficult decisions any President has to make - and when they make it - I will back both the troops and the mission. If I disagree with the mission I will do so in a way that will not in any way shape or form jeopardize their lives or mission.

I also recognize that conflict at this point in man's history is inevitable, and when all people share the glories offered and defended by those who gave all for this country than war will be a lot less likely - Democracies do not war on Democracies. What has war accomplished those ask - well it has thrown Fascism, Nazism, Soviet Communism, and American Slavery into history's junkyard to mention a few of its accomplishments.

I do visualize peace one day, I know that there are fewer conflicts happening today on average than ever before; that this relates to the spread of democratic principles too many Americans sacrificed their lives for. I do honor their sacrifices and will not forget that those liberties I (and my family) enjoy today were earned and fought for and died for by people who understood that they need to be and are worth fighting for.

God Bless the United States of America and all those we remembered (and their families) this past weekend.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ May 30 2006, 01:08 PM) [snapback]262800[/snapback]</div>

I never thought I'd say this, but- I agree with Schmika 100%!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ May 30 2006, 10:08 AM) [snapback]262800[/snapback]</div>

Schmika! My new spiritual guru! B)

 

this is like one of the most inflammatory threads i've ever seen... OF COURSE YOU HONOR CONFEDERATE SOLDIERS!!

May their ghosts rise and haunt your arse, and anyone who agrees, from beyond.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Schmika @ May 30 2006, 01:08 PM) [snapback]262800[/snapback]</div>

don't you think that's a WEEEEE big of a generalization?

Seriously.

I've spent a lot of time in the south, have you?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 30 2006, 08:05 PM) [snapback]263068[/snapback]</div>

It might be a generalization, but that doesn't make the flag a peace symbol. When my husband and I were looking for a house, we found a really great place about a mile away from my aunts house. We loved the layout, it had a fireplace and a big backyard... As we walked out the front door, the redneck across the street was pulling out in his big pick up with a confederate flag painted across the back window. We honestly didn't think anything of it until he revved the truck, honked, and shouted a racial slur at my husband before driving away.

We kept looking, and I revised my 'Oh, it's just southern pride!' opinion.

 

The Civil War was brought about many issues that involved slavery, but were not just about freeing slaves. The issue of the individual states right to make decisions about moral and economic decisions was a huge cause of the war. Abolishing slavery itself was a huge issue. The debate over a state's right to secede from the Union, as mentioned above, was a huge issue as well. The economic impact to the South if slavery was abolished couldn't be ignored and was one of the greatest driving forces behind why planters did not want to see slavery abolished. To say that the Civil War was just about freeing the slaves isn't accurate. A more in depth discussion of the causes to include some of the issues just mentioned would be more historically accurate.

There was great debate among the Continental Congress when drafting the Declaration of Independence regarding the issue of slavery. This debate didn't simply emerge when Abraham Lincoln (a republican) became president.

Regarding the Rebel battle flag & the bonnie blue are historical icons and should be flown proudly in the south. But regretfully there are those who have flown it for the wrong reasons and have tarnished its symbolisim from good to bad.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 30 2006, 10:00 PM) [snapback]263146[/snapback]</div>

Just like the leftists who burn the American flag while chanting about how the US is the biggest terrorist in the world....

Say what thoust whilst about the South, but on the whole, people here are A LOT friendlier than New England....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ May 30 2006, 06:08 PM) [snapback]263156[/snapback]</div>

FOR EYEGUY...no it really was not directed at anyone (and certainly not you), just a general comment...These kinds of threads are both enlightlying as well as polorizing. As I have gotten older my opinions have changed, but one thing has remained contant. As a country we must always have the moral courage to stand up and tell our government when they are wrong. The spilling of this generation's blood for a largly thankless group of people is WRONG. As much as we may be there for the 'good cause' those people will never be westernized and therin is the great tradegy and falsehood of our involvement. Why Isreal?... (and BTW, I am a Jew and don't consider that critisim of either Israel or Jews to be automatically a call for 'the antisemistim card")... becaue Israel is the ONLY westernzied country in the entire region, period, end of story, look at a map. And lastly, if this world is too survive, we better get a president who knows what statesmanship is, or we are doomed.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusguy04 @ May 30 2006, 07:00 PM) [snapback]263146[/snapback]</div>

I have to say that the Civil War was not about Slavery. It was a point issue, but a non issue. By the time the Civil War started Slavery was economically dead, it was just waiting to be buried. The issue was States Rights vrs Federal rights or as my History Professor in College put it Sectionalism vrs Nationalism. Would the rights of the individual states supersede the national government or the other way around. This was the great struggle for the first 100 years. Are we a federal union of individual states or a group of states encompassed by a federal union? The issue was states rights, federalism vrs sectionalism. The die was cast and the south had no hope. Once the economic might of the north fell upon them in the first modern war they had no chance. The rural, Jeffersonian past was dead at that point. We all moved on for good or bad and healed one of the poor compromises of the Constitution. We have all paid the price from 1865 to date and are still paying the price for that compromise. We will move on and I hope forge new compromise to bring all of us together over the next 2000 years. Compromise is the essential basis of our government. We all need to move away from the, I am right and you are wrong to the, I don't understand that, what did you say?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(powrfuel @ May 30 2006, 10:56 PM) [snapback]263194[/snapback]</div>

First off I'm glad to hear there are Jewish people out there who don't default to antisemitism upon criticism of either Judaism or Israel itself, and discussions thereof.

Kidding aside, so what? So what if they are the only western country in that area? Why should "the west" impose its ideals? I hate to say it, but part of me does have some respect for Iran for standing up and effectively saying, "Hey, F. U., YOUR UN, YOUR ideals, YOUR view of how the world should be, we want no part of it, so PISS OFF, we're going to do it anyway...". IMO, if they, or any other Arabic country/leader imposes a dictorial ultra conservative Islamic regime, by all means... Just understand if you go on the offensive and attack us, we'll wipe you off the map, you get the idea... Who are we to say, "you're going to be part of this "unified world" whether you like it or not."