OPEC warns bio-fuels could lead to soaring oil prices: report

Oil prices will continue to rise regardless of biofuels. So saying the price will go through the roof IS truthful. Saying the cause will be biofuels is an outright lie. OPEC will use biofuel caused reduction in investment as something to point to as an excuse for lowered output and higher prices. In reality, they just do not want to admit declining output is due to geological limitations.

 

There's truth to it, because all OPEC is threatening to do is fix prices in an attempt to strong-arm what it sees as a threat to its business.

The fact that they have the power to make this threat is exactly why we need develop alternative fuels so the oil sheiks don't have such a stranglehold on our economy.

 

Ditto!

One can only do what is best for oneself; one can never reliably control the actions of another, by amending one's own behaviour.

 

They are just admitting that they are addicted to their oil income. They require a certain minimum cash flow to sustain their economies and lifestyles.

If oil demand drops, they are saying they will raise the price of oil to maintain a constant income level.

That only works as long as no one breaks ranks and decides to sell for a few dollars less to gain more market share.

However, there is an upper limit to their ability to set prices, because if alternatives, whether bio-fuel, shale oil, or any other energy source are less expensive than what they want for their BTUs then they are stuck.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cwerdna @ Jun 6 2007, 12:43 PM) [snapback]456643[/snapback]</div>

f-it. Let's invade their asses. Then let's see if they still raise their prices.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 6 2007, 05:23 PM) [snapback]456843[/snapback]</div>

That's working really well isn't it!

 

The Pentagon and Lovins in Winning the Oil Endgame, point out that efficiency will eliminate most of the need for OPEC's product, oil. PHEVs will be another positive step forward, especially when based on renewable solar PVs.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Jun 6 2007, 04:27 PM) [snapback]456847[/snapback]</div>

Well like they say, "Practice makes perfect!"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 6 2007, 04:30 PM) [snapback]456852[/snapback]</div>

If at first you don't succeed, declare victory and leave.

 

Nice economic model/policy.
"develop competition to our product and we'll jack the price up!"
What other industry can get away with this?
In America we have anti-trust laws for this kind of thing.
Unfortunately, there is no anti-trust laws for international trade.
Instead, we can keep sending out our military, or we can quicken the development of alternatives.
OPEC's just given us ample reason to choose number 2, going forward.

OF course, as I said above, oil prices are not going to fall due to biofuels. Biofuels only have the capacity to replace declining supplies. The more the price of oil goes up, the more viable biofuels and EV's become and the more they will be developed.

Come on GM, give me a Volt so I can give the finger to these bastards!

 

Ummm, if OPEC jacked up the prices in response to bio-fuels, wouldn't that just make bio-fuels more attractive and screw over OPEC even more?

I say "Bring it on!"

 

None of this makes sense to me, if peak oil has any validity in the OPEC countries.

So I think either: the OPEC guy is an idiot, or this is just a bit of disinformation. Either way, I couldn't care less. Oil will go up in price because of carbon taxation long term

 

Ultimately, OPEC will go out of business: Peak Oil

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(briloop @ Jun 7 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]457400[/snapback]</div>

I see people posting links to that site all the time.

It's certainly a fire-hose of 'information' but I'd be very careful accepting it completely at face value as factual and unbiased.

Just an example that should be familiar to posters here.

In their analysis of Hybrids they lean heavily on our old friends at CNW Marketing, and they also hilight the "Prius Batteries Creating Massive Environmental "Dead Zone" in Canada" meme.

When I analyze a site like that where I may not have all the facts in all the areas they cover, I find it useful to look at areas where I do have some frame of reference.

If they're showing bias, ignorance, or obvious agenda driven cherry-picking there, I have to assume they're doing that in other places.

 

I have not read that site, but I do believe peak oil is here or very close to here. Even if it is not for 10 years, it is NOT a reason to delay action in preparing for it.

Nevermind that site, do YOU believe we have an infinite amount of oil?
30 years?
10 years?
What exactly would convince you that maybe we should start reducing our consumption? If you already believe we should reduce consumption for anti OPEC/national security/AGW reasons, then WHO cares if they are biased if they are helping achieve the same ends?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(skruse @ Jun 6 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]456851[/snapback]</div>

Oil Endgame
"A strange game. The only winning move is not to play. How about a nice wind powered PHEV?
"

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jun 7 2007, 03:07 PM) [snapback]457509[/snapback]</div>

What I don't believe is that the end justifies the means.

I prefer truth. Whatever you believe it's much easier to convince others and much harder for them to dismiss you if you stick to the truth.

If someone lies to me, or attempts to deceive me, I don't care what their goals or motives are, they are still liars.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Jun 7 2007, 02:07 PM) [snapback]457509[/snapback]</div>

I've read the site, pretty scary, but like Tempus says, they're cherry-picking data for a very worst-case scenario, and not allowing for much adaptability by consumers. Look at the oil consumption graphs, and there's a big drop after the 1970's embargoes. Sure, it was accompanied by a recession, but we could cut oil consumption by 10%-20% immediately and civilization will survive.

I've been watching this peak oil thing for a few years. OPEC has been giving various reasons for not increasing production the last year or two, usually tied to uncertain demand forecasts. As others have said, they're just covering for the apparent fact that they cannot increase production. It wasn't so long ago, they wanted to keep oil at about $35/barrel, because they felt they could still make a decent profit at that price, but above that level people would push for conservation and alternatives. So now it's $65/barrel, and they still aren't increasing production to bring the price down? Something wrong with that picture. I think it was in April they said they didn't see long-term demand for increasing production, and besides, Mexico could fill in any gap. Wait a minute: voluntarily give up market share to a non-OPEC country? (Nevermind that Cantrell, Mexico's largest oil field, is already in decline, and they'd be hard-pressed to increase supply significantly.)

There might be a reason why Iran has something like 50% of its vehicles using CNG instead of gas, and supposedly wants nuclear fuel for electricity production. (Don't take that stat as gospel. I know it's a significant percentage, but can't remember exactly what it is right now).

In any case, I'd recommend people keep their Prius in good working order. And look into electric bikes for your second vehicle.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tempus @ Jun 7 2007, 12:33 PM) [snapback]457448[/snapback]</div>

I agree totally. In my opinion, the guy who is running the site has a bias toward the "doom and gloom" aspect of Peak Oil. He and his sponsors are trying to sell books, survival gear, etc.

On the other hand, Peak Oil is something to deal with. The world will one day run out of it. The world's economy is almost totally dependent on hydrocarbons for transportation.

I link to this site because it has a lot of information.

From now on, I will try to remember to add a disclaimer when linking to this site. I am in no way connected to the site nor its owner, nor any of its sponsors.