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Open Letter to Coulomb Technologies

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by jbrad4, Apr 7, 2012.

  1. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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    email: [email protected]
    date: 07 Apr 2012
    Subject: Cost to charge at ChargePoint

    Please send this to your management.

    I just purchased a 2012 Toyota Prius Plug-In.
    Yesterday, I went to the City of Richardson, TX,
    Huffhines Recreation Center to use one of your
    charging stations. When I put my card up to
    the Charger it said

    "$2.00 per hr, min. $2.00".

    My car charges at 1.9 kW on your Level-2 charger.

    So, that's a cost of $1.053 / kWh

    The EPA says that 1 gal of gas is equivalent
    to 33.7 kWh. So, your cost is the
    equivalent to paying $35.48 for 1 gal of gas.
    This is highway robbery.

    I pay 9.5 cents/ kWh and soon will get
    a new contract at 8 cents or below.
    Your charge of $1.053 / kWh is way out
    of line.

    Why would I pay Coulomb $2.00/hr
    when I can go home and charge for
    $0.19/hr. Your charging price is
    crazyness!

    -= Jim =-
     
    5 people like this.
  2. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Yup, the owners choose.

    I've seen a variety of ChargePoint stations around here, each offering different pricing.

    The price I like is $3 per 8-hour session. That's reasonable in my mind.

    $2.49 per hour is the most expensive around here. I'm not willing to pay a rate like that on anything other than a very special occasion.
    .
     
  4. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    It seems fair. Payback for residential solar, 35-40 years. Payback for commercial charging stations = < one year!
     
  5. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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    Thanks for the info about the owner of the property setting the rates. Now I have to find out who in the City of Richardson I need to send a letter to. The City of Garland has Blink Network chargers. As far as I know those are free. I need to find out for sure before I send my letter to Richardson. I've used the chargers at Garland City Hall three times this week. While there a lot of people stopped by to ask about EVs. Of those two chargers, one doesn't work. I sent a note to Blink Network about the non-functioning one.

    Charging at Garland City Hall
    [​IMG]
     
  6. bobsut

    bobsut New Member

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    At the ChargePoint Network's Find Stations link (which URL I'm not allowed to post) you can search for only those stations whose owners have set a pricing level you like, are reservable, etc.
     
  7. rlowenth

    rlowenth New Member

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    Station owners set the pricing on ChargePoint stations. Many are free, many are expensive. We are interested in perspectives of what is a reasonable price because station owners ask us for recommendations. Please let us know.

    BTW, I used to drive a Prius with a Hymotion EV plug-in conversion but now have a Volt and an Active E.

    Richard
    Founder and Chief Technical Officer, Coulomb Technologies
     
    8 people like this.
  8. tomkessler

    tomkessler Junior Member

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    The commercial stations are quite expensive to install. They're probably just trying to recoup some of the expense.
     
  9. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    I gather if I run of out petrol, I can call a tow truck for a couple gallons, but it costs $80. Charging $40/gallon is Highway robbery!
     
  10. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Over time, the market dynamics converge to a pricing structure based on what people are willing to pay. Surely you folks at Coulomb have data already from which inferences can be made regarding optimal fee structure based on charger type, current fee structure and location?

    For all the money that people waste on ATM fees for the convenience of hitting the nearest terminal, or paying for coffee or bottled water while out and about when it is virtually free at home, I think it is reasonable to charge a connect fee + a cost per kWh used. Clearly, users should not expect to pay a cost per kWh that is as low as their rate at home. While the altruistic argument can be made that charging stations are provided in order to make the world a better place, they are primarily a convenience for the end user and should not be free.

    The Plug-In Prius is problematic from the commercial charging station standpoint, as a charge based solely on kWh usage is not likely to result in a profit. The connect fee helps to cover the nuisance value tying up the station for a few hours at a very low output.

    The main question is, what's reasonable? How about $1 for the connect fee and then a cost per kWh that is maybe 5 cents over the home rate? A full charge works out to around $1.60 in that case. How can one bitch about paying $1.60 to charge their PIP when that is less than the cost of a small coffee at Starbucks?
     
    1 person likes this.
  11. andi1111

    andi1111 Member

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    1 hour of charging will give you 10 miles of range.
    If 1 hour of charging costs 2 US$, how much does it cost to drive 10 miles on gasoline?

    At 50mpg, that's 0.2 gallons, at 4$/gallon, that's less than 1US$.

    So, from money point of view, it's cheaper to drive on gas than to recharge at such an expensive charging point.
     
  12. conorearly

    conorearly New Member

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    There are a few level 2 ChargePoint EVSEs at my work (Stanford Hospital/University) that run at $3/hour. So, a full charge for 1.5 hours would run me $4.5 and take me 15 miles (optimistically). For the same price I can get a gallon of gas that'll take me almost four times that distance. It's a no brainer to not charge at work.

    On a positive note, the Stanford Shopping mall about a half mile away offers two free level 2 ChargePoint EVSEs. Upfront parking at a very busy shopping center is also perk :)

    [​IMG]
     
  13. SageBrush

    SageBrush Senior Member

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    How much would a cup of coffee at Starbucks cost if they sold say two cups a day at a branch and wanted to stay open (that is to say, profitable?)

    Do rational people walk into a Starbucks and complain that the price is multiples more than what they pay at home, or expect the cost of 23 beans from a bag of beans at Costco (+ 10% for profit, naturally)?

    "Fair" and "reasonable" pricing are oxymorons.

    I'm sad to say that early adopters of EVs feel entitiled to public charging subsidy. They may be right, but the correct forum is the legislature, not nasty letters to Coulomb tech.
     
  14. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    Personally, I'd rather have everyone charge at night at home when the power utilities are underused. The PiP battery is so small that public charging stations will have a hard time to recoup their cost of installation.
    If I have to pay more than 15 cents/KWH, I'll just charge at home. I'm not willing to pay extra to charge a 4KWH battery.
     
  15. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    Personally, I'd rather have everyone charge at night at home when the power utilities are underused. The PiP battery is so small that public charging stations will have a hard time to recoup their cost of installation.
    If I have to pay more than 15 cents/KWH, I'll just charge at home. I'm not willing to pay extra to charge a 4KWH battery.
     
  16. ThatTallGuy

    ThatTallGuy Junior Member

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    There's a difficult dynamic here. The most common plug-in vehicle for the foreseeable future is going to be the Prius, with it's small charging requirement. As a charging station owner (if I were one) I'd want a decent per-transaction fee to make it worth my while. On the other hand, a Prius doesn't take all that much electricity per use.

    What's being charged for is access, convenience. Sagebrush is right with his coffee example, although I'd use McDonald's instead of Starbucks as what you're getting isn't premium, it's just regular. You pay a buck for a coffee at a 7-11 because you don't want to be bothered making it, you want it right then not five or ten minutes from now, and you're willing a little for that service. The cost of the materials (whether coffee or power) is only a small part of what you're paying for.
     
  17. jbrad4

    jbrad4 Active Member

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    Richard,
    I could live with a ten to one price difference between the going rate for electricity and the cost of the public charger. I wouldn't like it, but I would pay it. Right now the going rate for electricity here is around 7.5 to 8 cents / kWh. It was not the $2 minimum that got to me, it was the $2/hr when the electricity cost is 15 cents /hour. That's 8 cents X the 1.9 kW that my car draws on your charger.
    Twenty-five times the cost of the electricity is way too much.
     
  18. __-_-_-__

    __-_-_-__ Junior Member

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    how much it costs a charging station like that?
     
  19. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    It's the initial wiring, not the station itself.

    Where I park, the intent was to offer an entire section for charging at some point. That required an expensive investment for the first two units, but will cost far less to add more later.

    The owner doesn't expect to actually make money directly from the charging either. But since it's in a ramp, drawing business that would have otherwise went to competitors is a plus for him.
    .
     
  20. seilerts

    seilerts Battery Curmudgeon

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    Jim, you should consider that city bureaucrats set the rate for that charging station. Possibly the reason that it is set that way is to cover costs in the case of a Volt or Leaf plugging in. For those owners, they would be paying 25 cents per kWh, which isn't great, but again, you have to ask just how much should a government entity be subsidizing the convenience for a select few?

    I think we would all be interested in hearing the outcome of a discussion that you would have with the city officials in charge of setting the rate. It is possible that they only need some education. For example, would a 25 cent per kWh, $2 minimum, fee structure be something that you would be willing to pay? Maybe if you suggest that, it will be taken seriously, since that is exactly how it is set in the case of a Volt or a Leaf. The city probably has a mandate for the chargers to break even or make money, and they certainly don't want them sitting idle.