Featured Open Letter To Toyota USA: Go All In On The Prius Prime, Kill The Regular Prius Hybrid

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tideland Prius, Jan 20, 2019.

  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Open Letter To Toyota USA: Go All In On The Prius Prime, Kill The Regular Prius Hybrid | CleanTechnica
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    circular file

    not sure toyota sees prime as strong growth, especially when you consider what they have to sell it for in the northeast.

    worldwide may be different.
     
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I agree with this. The Prius has been Toyota’s showcase for hybrid technology. What better to showcase than to make it PHEV only and design it without compromise.

    Bring the Corolla Hybrid as a hatch and wagon to cover the Prius Liftback market.
     
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  4. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I could get behind making all the Prius AWD and all the 2WD Primes.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    her notions don't add up. increase range to 50 miles: no comment on where you're gonna put the battery or cost.

    offering only prius PHEV will sell more phevs, but decrease prius sales further

    two battery ranges = higher costs and more inventory

    her 4th point negates her 2nd point
     
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  6. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    But that what she means. Don’t sell a Prius. Herd those sales to either a Corolla/Camry/RAV4 Hybrid sale or towards a Prius Prime with greater range.

    More cost but if it’s the same battery as the current Prime with tweaks, they can increase the amortization of the current battery development and offer a lower MSRP and greater market penetration.
     
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  7. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    The Prime should have always been more upscale, it’s already longer than the “v” anyway why not go the rest of the way?
    More room for the solar panel.

    The standard Prius always could be plug in, 1.5kwhrs delivers 6-7 city miles in warm weather.

    They could have maybe salvaged 2 of the 3 PRII models if they knuckled under and offered a 4kwhr PIP battery in any car with nimh as standard hybrid with the Prime at the top of the roost. It would have been good PR.

    As it is they already make 3 different PRII batteries along with different batteries for every other non-prii hybrid.
    If they would have standardized to a decent modern 4kwhr lithium pack they could have likely reduced the number of unique packs and just put that into everything else.

    Battery costs are under $250kwhr for a low volume hobbiest purchase by an individual, I can only imagine what Toyo pays.

    4kwhrs of Current lithium batteries should easily fit in the same place as the current nimh pack and still save weight.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I would agree that Toyota and car shoppers would benefit if the Prius c were re-branded to something else. At a simple arithmetic level, I don't think McDonald is fair to say it cheapens the brand when there is overlap between the prices of the top trim c and the base Prius. And it's a two-way street: As much as the c cheapens the Prius brand, the Prius badge shades the c with its undeniable dork-factor.

    The biggest flaw I see in this letter is that it is about 5 years late. It describes what Toyota should have done with their most recent development cycle rather than their upcoming one, but I imagine automakers get letters like that often and are probably used to it. Hey, I don't have a crystal ball either.

    I agree with the general theme of the letter though- the public wants pluggy cars and Toyota isn't bringing enough of them. The more I read about the imminent Subaru Crosstrek hybrid, the more I think it's going to replace our other car. It seems to have most of what I value out of the Prime PHEV with little to none of the baggage.
     
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  9. padroo

    padroo Senior Member

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    I'm sure they could find room for more batteries with a redesign of the trunk and under the rear seat like the standard Prius.

    One of the downfalls of the lion battery is its rigid package design.

    When I look at my RC lithium polymer batteries come in little bags and are more compact.
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    First, put a conformal battery in the empty spare tire well. The volume is adequate to put a 12 kWh battery.

    Second, use a dedicated thermal management system for both cooling and heating. This eliminates wasted space for air ducting.

    Third, increase in car charger to 8 kW (i.e., 240VAC @40A) so the car won't waste time sipping charger through a cocktail straw charger.

    Fourth, integrate all heating and air conditioning into a single system so waste heat in the winter warms the cabin and cooling saves the battery in the summer and charging.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    First off, the letter is addressed to the wrong party. Toyota US cannot offer what Toyota corporate does not design and manufacture.

    Car makers have used the same model names for multiple body styles for years. Remember station wagons? They did not have unique model names.

    Toyota corporate needs to realize that although hydrogen fuel cell may make sense as a short term compliance car, the future is PHEV & BEV for most markets.
     
  12. bisco

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    agree that a corolla hybrid would sell decently, and the rav4h looks good. not sure about hycam sales though, they've always been tepid.

    revamping the prime chassis is not going to involve tweaks and likely will be expensive. finding a way to reduce costs will be important, but a larger battery a la volt is not necessarily the magic bullet.

    lastly, i don't see the prius c denigrating the prius line in any way, shape or form. they aren't popular, but neither is the v, and now the lift back. it's gas prices people!
    she's showing personal biases here.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    final point (maybe)

    toyota has always had the option and ability to offer a dedicated PHEV. the fact that they haven't for 7, going on 10 years shows their lack of interest in the future of electrification, and proves that prime is a compliance car.
    her letter to santa claus will not be read by anyone at toyota, just as all the calls for a bev have been disregarded and in fact, belittled.
     
  14. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    although the deal with Panasonic gives me some hope about Toyota regarding BEV's.
     
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  15. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    That's an interesting piece.
    I actually agree with a lot of the observations.

    I may be wrong. But lately there seems to be a lot of "The Death of The Hybrid" momentum and talk, and I think it's premature.
    Toyota is a large enough manufacturer, that Toyota doesn't need to go "All In" on the Prius Prime. Toyota can easily produce both the standard Prius and The Prius Prime. I don't see any need, for Toyota to cease support or production of the standard Hybrid Prius.

    With the success of Tesla, and the success of Prius Prime, there is this groundswell of momentum in support of full EV's and PHEV's. And I do also believe the future has a plug. I do believe that is the direction.

    However, I still think the standard Hybrid, is a fantastic machine. While it no longer holds the place as the "newest" alternative automotive choice, it is tried and true, and is the only alternative vehicle that was designed from blue print to metal to not only offer the benefit of being very, very efficient, but be used and operated in a fossil fuel based and supported infrastructure. You don't have to plug it in, and it can be driven anywhere on the open road that there are fueling stations. That is still a benefit, even for those that can afford garages, chargers, and are willing to work with the growing infrastructure of plug in charging stations.

    I'll say it again, I could be wrong. BUT....I think the recent momentum to throw dirt on the grave of standard Hybrids premature, even if I do believe the future is plugged in.

    But if they can't be sold, and a buying audience fades? Then my personal thoughts are worthless. It will be interesting over the next few years, and even further on to see what direction not only Toyota goes, but the entire automotive world.
     
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  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The likely course would be to reduce the package choices for the standard hybrid. It may not even be a full product-cycle either.

    Decisions are made as the market shifts and we know it's a moving target.
     
  17. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Minor correction:

     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i hate to be sexist when someone is making herself look foolish
     
  19. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Correction himself (unless @Tideland Prius hs had a change of sex to go along with his new red car. ;)
     
  20. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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