Operating Temperature Li-ion Batteries

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Shirjeel Agha, May 13, 2014.

  1. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    I have imported a Prius Plug-in 20000 km driven from Japan. Since I belong to an area where temperature soars up to 45°C (113°F or even more) during summers, I would like to know if Prius Plug-in batteries would be able to sustain this extreme temperature. Glad if anyone can help.
     
  2. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    That's fine. The manual said the gas engine will run (even if you have EV range left) if the vehicle has been left in the sun, resulting in high temp.

    Make sure you run the cabin A/C because the battery is cooled by the cabin air. Since the gas engine will be providing most of the power, the battery is protected with limited power draw from it.

    That's the beauty of a plugin hybrid. Each propulsion system helping each other out.
     
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  3. -Rozi-

    -Rozi- Member

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    ... And try to avoid leaving the car parked at 45°C with batteries fully charged. It will decrease the battery lifespan.
    Do test your car to see if it can drive on battery only at this temperature first. If yes, then time your charge to finish right before take-off. If no, I would consider not charging at all until the summer is over.
     
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  4. Astolat

    Astolat Member

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    Well, remember the aircon can be run, effectively off the mains, to precondition the car. What about setting the timer to finish just before leaving and then preconditioning? Very short time, and no load, when batteries are hot then
     
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  5. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    Thank you all for your valuable input. Being a newbie to this, I now stand much wiser and prepared to handle my Prius Plug-in in summers. May be my decision to buy a plug-in was wrong but I hope I would at least be able to enjoy its ride as a conventional hybrid as many others do here. Not sure how they are managing their batteries in the hot sun but there are sure too many conventional hybrids running out there.
     
  6. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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  7. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    Sorry for the belated query. If I do not charge in the summers at all, does it mean that I can run the car as a conventional hybrid?
    The battery in use for conventional hybrid function would still get affected by the extreme temperature. Isn't it?
     
  8. markabele

    markabele owner of PiP, then Leaf, then Model 3

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    Yes, you can use it as a regular Prius if you don't plug it in. In regular HV mode battery use is pretty limited so you are not likely to heat it up very much.
     
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  9. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    No details on how that PHEV use the battery. If it uses the battery like Volt (without ICE support) it will live tougher life and the power it demands will require very high power density.

    However, PiP has both the battery and ICE helping each other out (blended operation). ICE generates cabin heat so in cold weather, battery can operate at higher temp without heating overheat that cuts the range. The same for very hot temp. ICE will come on to fill necessary power.

    Vice vesa, the battery will help ICE during the warmup period. The battery will also cover most (if not all) short trips that are hard on ICE and emission.

    The setup is a win-win synergy situation with minimal hardware to keep the vehicle light and spacious inside. PiP could have more battery to qualify for more tax incentive but Toyota said they did what they should (especially with respect to upstream electricity production) instead of what they could.
     
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  10. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    :)Thanks :)
     
  11. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    :) Thanks.:)
     
  12. GregP507

    GregP507 Senior Member

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    I certainly hope it isn't black.
     
  13. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    Thankfully, it is Blue. Still a month to go before I receive it. I hope it survives the harsh weather here.

    06.jpg
     
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  14. JamesBurke

    JamesBurke Senior Member

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    Interesting. So it's a used Japanese model? If so will not all the displays and buttons be in Japanese? I think there is one in Sri Lanka or maybe that was a Gen3. Owner used to post asking for translations. What voltage and hertz is your electricity? Wondering about evse and charger compatibility. Electronic thermal management should protect all the hybrid systems from the heat but you may have less performance than you were expecting.

    Has it shipped yet? It is possible to track the vessel on its voyage if you know its name, imo, or callsign. Your importer/shipper should know. Just something fun only Priuschaters would think to do.
     
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  15. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    JamesBurke, you are absolutely on the mark. The displays and buttons are in Japanese. I hope Word Lens Translator (an iOS app) would add Japanese to their language packs by the time I receive the car:) . Well, over here it is rather funny that conventional Prius hybrid which Toyota sells (with English display) is way too expensive than the imported one. Perhaps poor Government policies but this is how on Pakistani roads you will see a lot of imported Japanese Prius rather than the local ones. The other option is to import from U.K. but people here prefer Japanese cars since these are carefully driven and well maintained.

    I am worried about the Prius Plug-in survivability here because I am perhaps going to be the first PiP owner in Pakistan and as such there is no one with whom I can share or discuss. In any case I have bought the car now and ready to live with it.

    We have 220 V 50 Hz here so I have made sure that the car is shipped with a compatible charging cable. Otherwise, as much as I know, Toyota Japan has 220 V charging cable issued as a standard with all the models whereas 110 V cable is provided on buyer's request only. The car has not shipped yet but I am hoping to receive requisite information in about two days and then obviously I would want to have fun tracking the vessel. I want my wait to finish in the wink of an eye though. ;)
     
  16. bilbo04096

    bilbo04096 Member

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    The color IS very nice, probably the next best color to white. It's interesting, it appears that the Japanese version doesn't have the same wheel trim as the North American version. At some point you'll have to tell us how you will normally use your new PiP, whether for commuting daily or for occasional long trips, etc. No matter what, it will be rewarding.
     
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  17. Shirjeel Agha

    Shirjeel Agha Junior Member

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    Thanks. I opted for this color since Pearl White is very popular in my country and I wanted to have a change from the usual. As for the wheels, it is 15" alloy rim that comes originally with the car. Not sure how the North American version looks like but will check on Toyota U.S.

    It will be my pleasure to share my experience of PiP drive here since it will put the car and especially its Li-ion battery to the test of extreme hot weather.
     
  18. Astolat

    Astolat Member

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    That's the same wheel trim as the European model (in fact my car is just like that, same colour!). I'm afraid you'll find that the grey trim is just a cheap and cheerful plastic, although it's an alloy wheel underneath.
     
  19. nsfbr

    nsfbr Member

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    That pdf is actually quite good, which is somewhat unusual in that kind of document. Perhaps the two most important things to note in it are:

    1. In real time, you'll get more from your battery in terms of energy as you warm it up (until a point)
    2. Over the long haul, as -Rozi- said, high temps are bad for Li+ batteries. Perhaps the worst thing is to have hot, charged up Li+ in terms of degradation.

    If you are familiar with it, the Calendar fade follows Arrhenius for its effect on life versus temperature, and the square root of time for its time effect. For cycling, it is similar. Think of the cycle depth as the coefficient which behaves somewhat like Arrhenius for temp, and then it is the square root of the number of cycles at that DoD. You combine them in a way that lets it all hang together - by squaring the individual terms, adding those squares together, and then taking the square root of the sum. (A quick check for those wanting to do this to make sure is that if you take 100 cycles at one DoD the degradation from two groups of 50 cycles at the same DoD should give you the same total degradation.)

    I can tell you that you do not want your Li+ cells to get to 60°. Do the math and/or look at those curves in the pdf you referenced. Bad news when they are that hot. It is probably worth it to simply find a way to get them even 10° cooler, and if they have to get that hot, don't leave them above 30%-50% charged when they are left that way.
     
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