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Opinions please, Hybrid vs Efficient ICE Car. Is it worth the investment?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by harrysprius, May 25, 2017.

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  1. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I'm running Nokian WRG3s in a hilly area. My summer mpg is definitely lower than the factory Bridgestone Ecopias on a flat area. The hills definitely have something to do with it but we're talking 58mpg down to 50mpg tank average. (or worse... 48 mpg even). I ran the factory alongside Nokian R winter tires on steel rims for the first 5 years and replaced both of them with the WRG3. The rougher WRG3 tread definitely increases RR (car doesn't roll as well as the Ecopia) but of course the trade-off is not having to swap tires twice a year and slight increase in fuel consumption. I may go back to two separate sets of tires cause I prefer the LRR of the all-season tires for summer use.
     
    #81 Tideland Prius, Jun 6, 2017
  2. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    I'll probably switch over to the Ecopias, or there is a new Firestone LRR called the fuel fighter. May look at that. I think the Ecopia's are about $140 each and the Firestones are $130 each, but they also have a mail in rebate for $25 off each, so that's more like $105. Both say tread wear guarantee of 70,000 miles.
     
    #82 harrysprius, Jun 6, 2017
  3. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Mine definitely were replaced before 70,000 miles lol (replaced at 80,000km or 50,000 miles. And that's odometer. The tires themselves probably did 60-70% of that mileage since I had winter tires). When the tires slip in the rain as I accelerate up the Rockies, you know it's time for replacement.

    I've never had tires last the full "guaranteed" distance since you're required to prove it wore to 2/3nds or whatever the legal limit is and there's no way I'm wearing a tire to that kind of depth. With the weather I experience, it's not worth the lack of grip and possible collision to prove that tires wear prematurely)
     
    #83 Tideland Prius, Jun 6, 2017
  4. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    I'm with you on that, I replace in advance as well. Last three sets of 70,000 mile touring tires each got about 50K on them as well. And I rotate every 5,000 when I change oil.
     
    #84 harrysprius, Jun 6, 2017
  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    The 215/45r17 on OEM rims impact mpg for a variety of reasons. First off, and my back tells me all about it every time I'm putting ours back on: the 17" rims are PORKERS, weighing in at about 24+ pounds per, vs maybe 16 pounds for the OEM 15" rims.

    Then, the 17" tires are heavier, maybe 3~4 pounds per.

    Then, with both the rims and tires, the weight is further out from the centre, so more centrifugal force to start them rolling.

    And also, the tire is wider, bigger contact patch, more friction, more air resistance. Well a bit lol.

    And tire choices are different than in 15", no Michelin Energy Savers for example. FWIW, my short list in 17" is Michelin Primacy HXM4, for now.
     
    #85 Mendel Leisk, Jun 6, 2017
  6. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    For me, I bought the Prius not only to lower my gas costs, but to keep from having to buy fuel pumps, water pumps, AC pumps, computer replacements, brake discs, brake pads.............in otherwords, all the little "annoying" repairs that come up at 30, 40 and 50 thousand miles (or within the first 3 years of making payments) with conventional cars. Don't get me wrong, I still want to get my hands on a hobby car (and I probably will again some day), but I no longer want my main source of transportation to be my main source of aggravation. So, with that being said, please look at how often a Prius needs to have a major brake job within 4 years of ownership versus other non hybrid vehicles. Most people here in Priuschat within the first 4 years just needed to lubricate the caliper bolts, which is minimal. In my other non hybrid, non Toyota cars, I had to replace "defective" brake discs at 40 thousand miles!! I currently am just under 25k and as usual, my Toyota Prius is rolling just fine. Basically, to answer your question, it is a personal decision. I wish you the best in yours.
     
    #86 Montgomery, Jun 6, 2017
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  7. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    I seem to remember something about weight at the drive wheel assembly being like ten times as important as normal weight, and in the crank and flywheel being like 20 times as important, so that may be part of it.
     
    #87 harrysprius, Jun 6, 2017
  8. RMB

    RMB Senior Member

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    If you drive 75-80mph, having 17" rims/tires, and still get 48.8mpg calculated on the tank, you are doing very very very well! I get 50-52mpg calculated recent months (warm and dryer weather) but it's mainly due to the bay area gridlock commute, my average speed is only 25-27mph dash indicated. On weekends drive to work near speed limits 62-65mph is when my gas mileage suffers and trip A average mpg being pulled down. I probably get similar to yours at 48mpg if I have a full tank at freeway speed.
     
    #88 RMB, Jun 7, 2017
  9. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    I've been experimenting with driving style and speed to see how it changes. 75-78 nets me about 42, while dropping to 70-73 brings it up to about 45. Putting around our small town running errands over the long weekend got me that 48.8. Using the cruise makes things worse by a bit. Not sure if you saw that I not only have 17's, but I have the wrong size tire, and I don't have a LRR tire either. When I get the correct size and a LRR tire on it I'm sure I'll do a little better. Overall I'm really happy with the car. I had test driven a C model and this is way better.
     
    #89 harrysprius, Jun 7, 2017
  10. RMB

    RMB Senior Member

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    I think you will do just fine by that tire size (but sure LRR tires will be great); I will be looking into 215/50R17 tires once my 215/45 are done/worn. I previously had read a post about correcting the true speed by using a taller diameter size to offset the 2-3% difference or calling it the revs/mile standard or something like that. Bob Wilson had written up using tire size for that effect but doing a search couldn't find me the correct post.
     
    #90 RMB, Jun 7, 2017
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    My 2 cents: stick with stock 215/45R17, or 205/50R15 which is actually slightly closer in OD of 195/65R15, the stock 15" size. Adjusting tire OD to match the (mandated) speedo error seems a fools mission: throws off the odo.
     
    #91 Mendel Leisk, Jun 7, 2017
  12. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    I will say that after checking the speedometer to my phone gps it appears to be spot on. The police display cart they move around town seems to match as well.

    And I used the cruise and set it at 70 today for my commute. Ended the day at 44.5 and this weeks commute so far was 43.5 actual, not dash.

    Update on tire size vs speedometer- I ran the gps for quite a while this morning on my commute and probably 75% of the time it was exactly the same as the speedometer. Most of the rest of the time it read 1 mph high, once in a great while it hit 2 mpg high.

    I'll update the odometer tonight when I get home.
     
    #92 harrysprius, Jun 7, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2017
  13. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    OK, Odometer update as follows. And a refresher. With the 215/50R17 tires:

    The speedometer is almost perfect. Just a tiny bit high. Like .25-.5 MPH based upon GPS and Police remote station.
    The odometer is just a bit low. My GPS says the commute is 112 miles. The odometer says I went 109. So roughly 2.75%.

    Hope someone finds this useful, and maybe this tire is a good choice for speedometer accuracy with 17" rims.
    Also should be a mile per gallon more that I'm getting that I didn't see.
     
    #93 harrysprius, Jun 8, 2017
  14. RMB

    RMB Senior Member

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    With 215/45R17 tires my speedometer at 65 MPH, my GPS is showing 63. Going with a taller OD tires like 215/50R17 will be at true speed display by speedometer.

    :DBTW, with the 2.5% increased in distance travel with this tire size, for every 100,000 miles shown on the Odometer, actual distance driven would be 102,500 miles, which means 5 full tanks of gasoline free. I should had done it right off the bat when my car was brand new:D (LOl I was only kidding, don't throw bottles at me.)
     
    #94 RMB, Jun 9, 2017
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  15. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    So, I'm a little over 5000 miles in, and I'm loving the Prius. Highway ride and handling are great. Mileage is between 42-48 and the car didn't have LRR tires on it. I'm sure it'll go up a bit when I change them out. Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad I kept it.
     
    #95 harrysprius, Jul 21, 2017
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  16. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    Good to hear. (y)

    What are the tires again?
     
    #96 Mendel Leisk, Jul 21, 2017
  17. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    Velozza ZXV4
    [​IMG]
    • Price Range: $50.00 to $115.00
    • $0.00 Tax Collected Outside Utah
    Overall Rating
    [​IMG] (4.4) - 3 Reviews
    Highest Rated Qualities
    1) Dry Traction [​IMG]
    2) Noise Level [​IMG]
    3) Style/Looks [​IMG]
    Lowest Rated Qualities
    1) Cornering Predictability [​IMG]
    2) Wet Traction [​IMG]
    3) Comfort [​IMG]
    See detailed reviews Write a review
    The Velozza ZXV4 offers precision-engineered all-season performance at an economical price. This tire delivers maximum all-weather grip, confident high-speed stability and exceptionally crisp handling for those drivers seeking a combination of outstanding performance and superior value.

    Optimized performance design for confident cornering and excellent straight line stability

    Advanced tread compound provides extreme grip and maximum stopping power

    Large angular shoulder blocks enhance precision steering response and handling

    Lateral grooves quickly evacuate water for superior wet weather performance

    Asymmetric tread pattern for reduced irregular wear and a smooth quiet ride

    M & S rated for year-round performance capability
     
    #97 harrysprius, Jul 21, 2017
  18. harrysprius

    harrysprius Active Member

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    They were on it when I bought the car and they were just about new. Going to wear them out before I go to a LRR. While they may be inexpensive, and not LRR, they do ride and grip very well. No complaints at all with them. I don't think I'll every buy another set of non LRR tires for anything I drive, but if I was looking for a decent performance tire at a good price I'd buy them.
     
    #98 harrysprius, Jul 21, 2017
  19. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    A gentleman recently posted info about tire trade offs, Low Rolling Resistance vs. Wet Traction, Cornering Ability, Braking etc. Sorry I don't remember the post (old memory here!), but what I did get from his post was that you give up braking ability/traction when you go with LRR tires; this has been my experience with my Honda Insight Coupe: great mileage, poor stopping/tracking with LRRs; big loss in mileage (10 miles+) and much better stopping/tracking with "normal" tires.


    .
     
    #99 HPrimeAdvanced, Jul 21, 2017
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    If they're not giving you any trouble yeah: wear 'em out!
     
    #100 Mendel Leisk, Jul 21, 2017
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