1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Our New 2016 3 w ATP has Rodent Damage

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by Christov Tenn, Feb 2, 2020.

  1. Christov Tenn

    Christov Tenn Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    50
    18
    0
    Location:
    Stepford, Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Purchased this car at a LARGE Toyota dealership in Huntsville, Alabama, for what Carfax indicates is fair market value for a 2016 Prius Three with ATP and about 110,000 miles. Some problems required repair prior to delivery - right rear door wouldn't open from inside or outside, HUD wouldn't adjust properly for viewing, one or two other things, and the car needed re-detailed - the dealership's detail crew must have been hitting crack pipe or something when they attended to this vehicle's interior. After about 12 days, the dealership delivered the car last Wednesday evening, but forgot to include temporary tag. I went over the interior again on Thursday. They provided the tag by Friday UPS. Friday morning I took it on a 45 mile round trip to buy new tires all around, went to a parts store and discovered the difficulty finding wiper blades that fit. In the afternoon, I took it to a local dealership and got wipers, got the rear wiper fixed so it makes contact with rear window, and, because the car had a persistent stench, asked about buying a cabin air filter from parts. The tech must have misunderstood, because he came back to the waiting area carrying a filthy filter with two large holes chewed in it as well as white plastic frame chewed away.

    Insurance will cover the damage and the car's at the dealer for a "detailed estimate" that's likely to include upholstery and whatever's been damaged under the dashboard.

    I bought the car "as is" and it's my fault I didn't fully educate myself about the common wiring/rodent problem with these cars. The vehicle runs and drives beautifully. I'm fully kicking myself for not knowing to check air filter and for not recognizing when I saw them other telltale signs of rodent damage (rear seat damage, hood padding) - I thought the odor was just that the car had been previously owned by Jabba the Hutt's sister (only part of the problem, I now know).

    I'm surprised a large dealership wouldn't check something like air filter when taking a vehicle on trade or prepping it for resale. Maybe they did, and just left the mess in place.

    The Toyota guy at the dealership near my home said "the last one of these we did wound up costing about $3900 to repair. You should call your insurance company." My insurance company certifies and warrants for as long as I own the car repairs done by a Joe Hudson franchise across the street from the dealer, but they appear to specialize in body work. I'll get an estimate from the Toyota dealer and another from Joe Hudson's.

    I don't expect anything from the LARGE Huntsville dealership and wouldn't trust them, after this, to do any work. I will make a BBB complaint. The only thing that dealership could do to make this right would be to reimburse my $500 deductible. Won't happen, though. Education is expensive, experience is earned, wisdom is priceless but worth any expense.

    If you're thinking about buying a used Prius, please check the air filter. So many threads about this problem here I wish I'd seen.

    Cheers
     
  2. CooCooCaChoo

    CooCooCaChoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    888
    494
    0
    Location:
    Cow-lee-fornia
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    The small stuff they don't care about. Its about them pinching pennies to make a buck off you.

    And yeah, Toyota and some other brands are targets for rodents because the wiring harnesses are made of soy. If you have cats that'll help tremendously.
     
  3. Christov Tenn

    Christov Tenn Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    50
    18
    0
    Location:
    Stepford, Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    As expected, the insurance company denied coverage. I'd been up front with them from the time I made the claim stating that I thought the damage had been present before purchase. It took them seven business days to make the decision, though, which delayed our taking action to get the car to an independent mechanic. Attached below is a crop from the local dealership's estimate of repairs. We were planning to have the car reupholstered, anyway, and I'm capable of doing the seat/carpet removal and cleaning. I hate doing that stuff, but I can do it.

    I'm working on a timeline of problems with the sale and the vehicle in order to make a BBB complaint, an Alabama State Attorney General complaint, and an FTC complaint. Probably will get no satisfaction from the dealership as I'm guessing they're big political donors in Huntsville and at the state capitol.

    Code of Alabama
    Section 8-19-5
    Unlawful trade practices.
    (12) Knowingly failing to identify flood, water, fire, or accidentally damaged goods as damaged goods if they are damaged to the point of decreasing their value or rendering the goods unfit for the ordinary purpose for which they were purchased, provided, that this subdivision shall not apply to accidentally damaged new goods where the goods are reconditioned, reclaimed, or repaired to substantially their original condition and such fact is disclosed to the purchaser.

    (13) Knowingly making false or misleading statements of fact concerning the need for parts, replacement, or repair service.

    Federal Trade Commission's Used Care Rule
    Dealer's Guide to the Used Car Rule | Federal Trade Commission

    The car I bought had no "Buyer's Guide" displayed nor was one included after the fact in the dealership paperwork related to the sale. Who knows, maybe the FTC will investigate and fine the dealership?


    Cropped-2016-Prius-Rodent-Estimate.jpg
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,703
    48,947
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
  5. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Not sure about Alabama, but here, if something is advertised "as is" - what you see is what you get, and no further claims will be possible. I assume that the person who owned the car, traded it because of the rodent problem, they probably gave him/her a pittance as a trade, and sold it cheap "as is".

    Check with your attorney - they might be able to help you, though.
     
  6. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    640
    305
    0
    Location:
    33312
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius
    Model:
    L Eco
    Soy? Really?!
     
  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    GOOGLE it - Kia, Honda, Hyundai, Mazda, TOYOTA, Ford (seats are mentioned too), VW, Audi, Porsche, Merc, BMW came up quickly.

    One article said "Since the year 2000, almost all car manufacturers started using the soy-based wiring insulation. Prior to that, oil and petroleum-based insulations were in use. The approach was followed for an environmental-friendly driving that comes with soy-based insulations. So, in the present era if you ask “which cars do not have soy-based wiring,” then there is no one ... This is not it; luxury brands like Audi, BMW, Dodge, and Nissan have also introduced the concept too in their automobiles."

    ANOTHER website.

    upload_2020-2-21_23-34-51.png

    Of course - it's got to be true - it was on GOOGLE:eek::eek:.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    107,703
    48,947
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    maybe they should switch to almonds or oats
     
  9. CooCooCaChoo

    CooCooCaChoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    888
    494
    0
    Location:
    Cow-lee-fornia
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Yep, time to get a cat or if you have neighborhood cats, start feeding them.
     
    Mambo Dave likes this.
  10. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2019
    640
    305
    0
    Location:
    33312
    Vehicle:
    2019 Prius
    Model:
    L Eco
    I'd like to use a few swear words here, but instead I'll know to not plan on keeping anything as a super-long-term vehicle now that they've all switched to edible wiring harnesses.
     
  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2016
    11,696
    11,317
    0
    Location:
    Central Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
  12. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    It's not "long term" - the vast majority of cars have lived a natural long life (for a car), but there have been the odd one which has been attacked - and whether it was on week 1 of ownership or week 1352 - is just one of those things we accept.

    Pressure for environmental solutions have led to compromises - paint is one (though it's improving), this is another.

    Another thing to be careful of is DONKEYS if you've got an ORANGE car:

    Donkey Owner Fined $7,000 After Animal Was Caught Nibbling On A Carrot-Colored McLaren - The Drive
     
    jerrymildred, Prodigyplace and krmcg like this.
  13. Christov Tenn

    Christov Tenn Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    50
    18
    0
    Location:
    Stepford, Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    In Alabama, As Is means just that. However, there're some caveats and the dealership failed in a couple of those areas which renders them liable to an FTC complaint (which financially won't do me any good, but may cost the dealership more than retail price of a new Prius) and Alabama's state attorney general's office complaint which may likewise subject the dealership to an annoying investigation and possibly fines. Additionally, a BBB complaint may help inform the public about the dealership's lack of integrity.
     
  14. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

    Joined:
    May 22, 2009
    9,083
    5,796
    0
    Location:
    Undisclosed Location
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    In the dealerships defense, I wonder what the turnaround was between taking the vehicle in, and selling it to the OP.
    Sounds like the vehicle had quite a few warning signs that it wasn't exactly maintained in a pristine condition.

    Usually, a dealership will detail the vehicle before selling it. This sounds like it didn't even have a chance to go through any process at all.

    I hate to say it, but if all this was present before you bought it?
    Well we should never really trust a dealership. If you were willing to buy it in that condition, they'll be willing to sell it to you.

    I think something like DIRECT rodent damage, in the form of a chewed air filter and a damaged housing should of been caught and a reputable dealership would take responsibility for that damage.
    But it sounds like this was an undetailed vehicle in pretty bad shape, from step one.

    If I'm looking at a used vehicle and it needs to be detailed even before I purchase it, AND it has a "persistent stench"...I think I walk away from the vehicle and don't look back.
     
    alanclarkeau and jerrymildred like this.
  15. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2016
    11,491
    14,100
    0
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Whether the dealer was shifty or just had a bad day, it's still smart to give a car a good "going over" before buying it. Sounds like an expensive and inconvenient life lesson. Sorry you had to learn it like this, but these kinds of lessons are the ones we never forget and we pass on to the next generation.
     
    alanclarkeau likes this.
  16. CooCooCaChoo

    CooCooCaChoo Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2015
    888
    494
    0
    Location:
    Cow-lee-fornia
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Forget the BBB and go for social media.
     
  17. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Anything "AS IS" - needs thorough investigation, and it implies that the purchaser assumes ALL RISK. The salesman assessing the car for trade-in will give the car a quick once-over. Deductions are made for cars which have been smoked in, had "child damage" etc. Hail damage etc - will be advertised "AS IS" - with no implied warranty. This is what is generally stated in the small print here:

    upload_2020-2-23_16-36-7.png

    upload_2020-2-23_16-35-20.png

    One like this one - repairable by someone with the ability - but not necessarily able to be driven home.
     

    Attached Files:

    jerrymildred likes this.
  18. Christov Tenn

    Christov Tenn Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2020
    50
    18
    0
    Location:
    Stepford, Tennessee
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I certainly don't deny responsibility for my own failures in the matter. Numerous warning signs were present, I didn't put them together in a way that made enough sense for me to walk away from the sale. An expensive and humiliating life lesson.

    From the Carfax, it appeared the vehicle had been at the dealership around 21 days by the time I saw it. Plenty of time for it to have been detailed inside and out and for the service department to have found whatever problems their inspection would've revealed.

    As to the smell - like socks that need washed - and the interior's general appearance - I reckoned someone like Jabba the Hutt's sister had owned the car, spilled drinks on the seat tracks, fed her baby fast food in the carseat that appeared to have been anchored in back, and so forth. At the time, I thought that was something a good cleaning would address. The dealer agreed to have the vehicle re-detailed prior to delivery.

    Regarding social media, my family and I don't use it, don't have those accounts.

    As to the dealership, my goals is simply to hold them accountable for those of their failures that violate legal mandate. BBB? That's as close to social media - informing-the-public - as I tend to get.
     
    The Electric Me likes this.
  19. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    7,041
    7,580
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I'm surprised that the car was detailed at all - anything I've seen "AS IS" has never been detailed. One I looked at still had cocacola cans on the back floor.
     
    Prodigyplace likes this.