P3191 after replacing the head gasket

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Yawei, Aug 8, 2022.

  1. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    Hi all,

    I have a 2008 Prius (US) with 120000 miles. I noticed the misfire P0301, P0302 misfire two month ago and coolant level drops too, and the engine started roughly initially and gradually got better after a while (coolant evaporates in the cylinder), then figured out it could be due to a head gasket leakage.

    Then I replaced the head gasket, it did take me one month to finish the project since I only work on it occasionally on the weekends. However, I started the get this error, P3191. The engine will crank roughly for a few seconds, then stops. There is also smoke coming from the air intake when you open the air filter box.

    I replaced the MAF, cleaned the throttle body, and check the hoses are correctly connected. Still, the problem keeps. I also checked the engine oil level, and added some gas, and couldn't solve the problem.

    After many tests, I am getting a pending error P0A80, which is a faulty Hybrid battery warning. I guess it is because I started the engine too many times and it uses the hybrid battery to crank. Now I am worried that I may damage the battery if I continue to crank the engine without solving the no-start problem.

    I see some posts about ECM, but I don't have this problem before replacing the head gasket.

    Any advice is appreciated. Thank you.
     
  2. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    Hello and welcome to PriusChat!

    First guess based on your post, is that you did not get the timing chain correctly installed. Do you have a copy of the service manual? You might want to look up how to check for correct cam-to-crank alignment.

    If this is indeed incorrect, hopefully there hasn't been any valve damage?

    Yes, trying too many times to start the engine will discharge the HV battery. Most people have no means to recharge it.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  3. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I bought a copy of the service manual and followed it to install the timing chain, there are timing marks on the chain and camshaft, so I was able to put it back. But I will open the cylinder head cover again to confirm if I got the alignment correct. Others causes I can check are fuel pressure and ECM, but they seem fine before I did the gasket work.

    The display shows the battery is at the last purple line and a pending P0A80 error, hope I still have 2 or 3 chances to try.

    I have 3 more questions and hope you can provide some insights too.

    1) I disconnected the fuel line for about one month, will that cause the gas to evaporate and eventually lead to pure gas performance? I added about two gallons of gas but didn't help.

    2) Also, after a few cranking and no start, waiting for about a day, I disconnected the fuel line again since I want to reach the hose connection between the engine and the motor. Then, the gas spurts out immediately. Seems like there is a high pressure built up. Does this mean gas is not injected into the cylinder (the fuel pump keeps working, but gas is not injected out of the line)?

    3) black/grey smoke comes from the air intake, what is this? smells not like gasoline. If I got the timing chain installed incorrectly, should I expect an error code from the timing chain sensor?

    Thanks again.
     
  4. mr_guy_mann

    mr_guy_mann Senior Member

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    1. Unless the gas was crazy old (and smells like paint thinner or turpentine, then I wouldn't worry about the fuel.

    2. The fuel pump has a check valve and the injectors are shut when the ICE isn't running, so that part of the fuel system is "closed" and sealed. It should retain most of the pressure when the ICE last stopped- & on a warm day it can increase pressure. Don't worry about it.

    3. This the problem. Black-gray smoke is partially burned fuel (very rich mixture). There is NO reason why it should come out of the intake- period. The ICE is an air pump. Suck in (intake). Compress-boom (cylinder). Push out (exhaust). All in one direction.

    3 possible problems I can think of to make the engine "puke" backwards.

    A) the intake valves are not opening or closing at the right time (or not sealing at all?) If you had more battery charge I would suggest doing a compression test.

    B) the spark plugs are not firing at the correct time (coil connectors swapped or maybe crank sensor trigger wheel is not correctly installed)

    C) maybe the exhaust is completely clogged (rodent built a nest in the open exhaust pipe while it sat?)

    The ECM can only set codes as it was programmed to do. Many codes have "enable criteria" - conditions that have to be met before the ECM can run and pass/fail a test. Cranking and failing to start might not be long enough to run and fail those code tests.

    Might want to look for the thread about the DIY battery gear for under $100. I think there is a high voltage light power supply that can be used to charge the HV pack.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  5. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Head gasket on G2 is rare.

    what usually causes your issues is a severe engine overheat.
    Gasket won’t fix that as the aluminum head will warp. The fact that you did not deck check the head chasing the gasket tells me your over your head here. Warped head is why the gasket will fail.

    most just install a used engine. Lots of engine replacements. No temp gauge you never know your in overheat till to late.

    Hybrid battery has failed to from the start attempts. With dead hybrid battery the engine will not crank over. It’s uses the hybrid battery to power mg2 to spin the engine.
     
  6. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    I removed the head and checked the timing chain, now I am not sure if I installed the chain correctly or not. I remember clearly I installed the chain according to the timing marker, but now you can see that the timing marker is not aligned with the chain marker.

    Does the Chain marker return to the camshaft timing marker every revolution? I spin the crankshaft for a few rotations, but every time, the chain marker cannot align with the same location of the camshaft. Say, in the attached picture, marker B is aligned with the intake camshaft's timing marker, after one chain rotation, it will not be aligned again.

    upload_2022-8-14_23-16-48.png


    Besides, I noticed some leaked oil near the new gasket. You can see the shining new gasket in the attached picture, and I am not sure if the leaked oil is after installation or before. Where is the oil from? If it occurred before the replacement, does mean I did have a broken gasket?

    upload_2022-8-14_23-35-44.png

    Thank you very much. Really appreciate your help.

    Yawei
     
  7. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    I saw a lot of gasket replacement videos online on 3rd generation Prius, but only found one Video on Youtube on 2nd Generation Prius, so maybe 2nd Gen is likely to have this gasket problem.

    How to tell if the engine gets overheated? Before I changed the gasket, the car started very rough in idle in the morning, then gradually became smooth, and I get misfire error codes as well. I changed the spark plug, and ignition coil, but no help. Then I noticed the coolant level drops a lot, so I added coolant to the reservoir and radiator cap, still no help, so I decided to change the gasket.

    Now, the gasket is replaced, but I cannot start the engine anymore....and I feel I am draining the hybrid battery, and don't have many attempts left anymore. Need to figure out how to charge the hybrid battery..

    Thanks.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    expensive = grid charger

    inexpensive but labor intensive = individual block charging. at this point with a 14 year old battery, you'll probably need to do one or the other on a frequent basis.
     
  9. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    Also, FYI, the camshaft timing gear rotates left and right, and I am not sure if I put it in the "home" location. I removed VVT actuator and intake/exhaust camshaft of course to replace the head gasket, but I didn't remove the chain sprocket from the camshaft. Based on the image I posed in the above thread, can you tell if the chain installed correctly?

    Thanks,
     
  10. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Not sure what left and right means but if it moves from the front of the engine to the back of the engine clearly the timing gear should not move back and forth because it will throw the chain off.

    Smoke coming from intake means out of timing.
     
  11. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    Yeah, the timing is not correct. I assigned the chain's timing marker with the camshaft's, the intake camshaft is installed correctly, but somehow I messed up the exhaust camshaft. Both cams should point upward to the center, but you can see below that they are not. Now I need to drain the coolant and oil again, and re-install the timing chain. Hope the valves are not damaged and hybrid battery is good for one more spin, otherwise, I am doomed. Will do it over the weekend and post an update here.

    Thank everyone for the help.

    upload_2022-8-17_19-21-10.png
     
  12. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Show us a good picture of the bad head gasket. Lets see where it failed.

    Whenever I do something this involved on an engine new to me I take pictures.....Before starting any disassemble. Alot of pictures of all areas affected in this case and that would especially be all the timing marks after putting the engine in TDC. Then the timing marks relationship as the motor spins just to get an understanding of whats going on.

    I also would have bought a 1 day subscription to Toyota TS site and print out the manual section of this repair. I had the factory manual books for my 07 but sold them when i sold my car or i would have helped you. Multiple books. You can buy just the book for this repair on eBay.

    Also I rebuilt my hybrid battery by installing a NPB battery system. Complete disassembly and re-install of new batteries. Since I was not as versed nor an expert like many guys on this site I taped up all my wrenches. And I wore safety glasses. Because I respected the power of that battery. Arc flashes can hurt you really bad. Shit happens.

    New NPB battyeries:
     

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  13. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    You are absolutely right. I should have taken a lot of pictures before and after the installation. I did take pictures of the electrical wire connections since I was afraid of messing up the wires, but I didn't have a clear picture of the gasket.

    Here is what the gasket looks like when I took out the head. Some pink coolant in the piston, not sure if it leaked via the gasket or leaked from the head when I removed it.

    upload_2022-8-18_11-35-58.png


    upload_2022-8-18_11-35-28.png

    I also have a picture of the timing chain before removing it. You can see that if I rotate it counterclockwise, maybe by 20 degrees, the intake cam and exhaust cam will be pointing towards the same location, and the piston is at TDC. The installation picture from my previous thread shows the exhaust cam is mis-aligned.

    I bought a repair manual online before the installation since I had never done engine repair before. I have experience replacing brake rotor/pads, shock struts, etc, but not reparing engine. Then I followed the instruction to install the chain, like below. Some procedures must be wrong, otherwise, how can I align the timing mark correctly but got the camshaft wrong....

    Changing your battery is impressive to me. I hope I don't need to change mine

    upload_2022-8-18_11-44-34.png
     

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  14. Yawei

    Yawei New Member

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    Hi All,

    I want to post an update on the car. The P3191 is due to wrong timing and the car revs up again after correcting it. The P0A80 error goes away too after the battery is charged.

    However, I am getting a misfire error again, currently on cylinder 2&3. Engine rattles when idling at around 1000 RPM, but becomes very smooth after pressing the accelerating panel to ramp up the speed. I am going to do a compression test later. Wonder if I am getting a bent con-rod due to previous coolant leakage, or I may have damaged the valves when I cranked the engine with the wrong timing.

    When I first started the engine, there is smoke coming from the exhaust manifold's port 1, it smells as burning rubber. It goes away after I adding more coolant and engine oil. Wonder I may not getting enough cooling or lubrication.

    Thanks,
     
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