Partial Birth Abortion Ban Upheld by SCOTUS

I think this is one where the conservatives have it wrong.
The Government should set up free on demand abortion clinics in all
urban centers.
(largest population centers = largest possible portion of the country served)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 18 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]425474[/snapback]</div>

Agreed...this is a personal situation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 18 2007, 01:23 PM) [snapback]425458[/snapback]</div>

You have to get them old enough to draft or enlist. Abortion removes cannon fodder from the gene pool.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 18 2007, 12:25 PM) [snapback]425516[/snapback]</div>

One Doctor testified before Congree that 20% of his Partial Birth Abortion's (PBA's) were performed for genetic reasons the other 80% were purely elective. What were some of the genetic defects you ask . . .?

1. Cleft Palates (colloquially referred to as Hare-Lip)
2. Cystic hygroma (sac-like structure with a thin wall that most commonly occurs in the head and neck area.)
3. Cystic Fibrosis (hereditary disease that affects the entire body, causing progressive disability and early death.) A good friend of mine (mid 40's) died from this, I test flew his UltraLight for him. Should have seen the grin on his face when I brought it back to him in one piece, he flew it for another 2.5 years before he passed away.

What about the health of the mother?

Some of the reasons listed for wanting a Partial Birth Abortion

1) Depression
2) Chicken Pox
3) Diabetes (if its gestational diabetes it most often reverses itself after birth.)
4) Vomiting

Dr. C. Everett Coop, former U.S. Surgeon General, stated, “... in no way can I twist my mind to see that the late-term abortion as described is a medical necessity for the mother. It certainly can’t be a necessity for the baby.â€

These certainly are not the only reasons but is there one doctor on this forum that would perform a trimester PBA for these reasons? Therefore I beleive that some laws are necessary to restrict this type of abortion. I believe some diseases like CF can not be diagnosed until later in the pregnancy, what’s the answer to this? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OTHER THAN TALK! Put this program on your computer and join the Priuschat Folding@Home team and help researchers at Stanford University cure horrible diseases. OTHERWISE HAVE A CUP OF STFU AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS TOPIC!

Pardon my rude outburst*, as you can see I am somewhat passionate about this subject. We have 16,000+ members and we now have only 30 members folding, Pintogirl said that we are such a violent society that she is surprised anyone cares about this subject. I say that we are quickly proving ourselves to be a cold society if we can’t take 5 minutes of our time to install a simple program with the potential to do so much good. Researchers have been trying to observe the sequence of a protein folding over a period of time, and throughout the seven years that F@H has been running they can now observe 500 microseconds! That’s right, 500 microseconds, there are 1,000,000 microseconds to one second. Think about this and please join our team. Once again excuse my rudeness I will now go and wash my mouth out with soap and write down “I will not be rude or intolerant on priuschat.com until my next opportunity comes along.†500 times.

I tell you what if we get 10 more folders by the end of the month I will supply a list of things totally out of character and you all can pick one and I'll do it! I swear to God, cross my heart, stick a needle in my eye I will do it! BTW, sticking a needle in my eye is not going to be one of the choices! <_< I have already been there and done that and it hurts like a bi@ch! If we get a total of 100 hundred steady folders with at least one Work Unit per two week period in the next 6 months, I will let you all come up with your own list and then everyone can vote on which is the favorite and I'll do it. I'll even stick it on YouTube.com! Come on you’re already 1/3 of the way there just don’t tuck yer tail between your legs and pee yourselves. Best of all I’m one percent of the final total, MooHaHaHaHaHahahaha . . .

The gauntlet has been raised, you have been unceremoniously and humiliatingly bi@ch slapped, I await your response.

Thank you for considering my request and have a nice day.

Wildkow

p.s. sorry airportkid I don’t blame you if you would like to withdraw your PM.

 

kow, great context! geez, the world is turning on its head... i find myself agreeing with you more lately...

i have a hard time seeing where late-term abortion is necessary in all but the most desperate, extreme cases. we should be talking just a handful of procedures a year nationwide.

also, i don't see how this ruling indicates that rvw might be overturned. i think anyone in their logical mind, minus the emotions that is, will agree that this isn't a necessary procedure and no one is having rights denied to them. so long as they make a damn decision at a reasonable time, abortion is still legal.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 18 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]425675[/snapback]</div>

great post kow.

have a question that I really don't know the answer. when someone kills a pregnant women, is the baby's life considered in the sentencing as a person.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 18 2007, 07:14 PM) [snapback]425675[/snapback]</div>

It's not late term. It second trimester which would be mid-term. The fetus is not viable.

But what is significant is the refusal to admit any circumstances that would constitute an exception. Not even death of the mother.

Women have just been reduced to the status of Herbert's axolotl tanks.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Apr 18 2007, 05:14 PM) [snapback]425675[/snapback]</div>

Abortion should be legal but not used as a means of birth control. But then again that is easy for me (male) to say, therefore, all means of birth control should be taught to the children, abstinence as well as birth control! DoH! I do believe that some genetic testing and other testing for defects for that matter can not discover problems until second or late second trimester. Therefore, in the extreme cases that you mention PBA's should and would be sadly necessary.

Wildkow

p.s. Some of that turning is on my end. The only issue in debate is which end? :blink:

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(saechaka @ Apr 18 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]425691[/snapback]</div>

I don't know about the sentencing aspect but I do know that about a dozen states have Fetal Murder Laws. Also I believe Bush also tried to insert something or did insert something into Federal Law about Fetal Murder.

Wildkow

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 18 2007, 05:47 PM) [snapback]425694[/snapback]</div>

Anyone that would advocate that is an extremist loon and most probably male to boot. <_<

Your referencing Dune?!? Sweet!

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Apr 18 2007, 08:47 PM) [snapback]425694[/snapback]</div>

as far as i understand, this ban is on what's typically called "partial birth abortion" aka IDX. although if the wording can be interpreted to include D&E and there are no exceptions, then yes i do see a problem with that. no matter the situation, options do need to be available. period.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 18 2007, 10:55 AM) [snapback]425486[/snapback]</div>

Me too. I'm thinking higher brain activity, or a nervous system developed enough to experience pain during the killing. Some brain activity is noted at very early stages, but I think higher brain activity comes somewhere in the second trimester.

Most abortions seem to be for discharging an unwanted pregnancy, and most women do that within the first trimester. Its a horrible tragedy when its done, but as a society, we want to allow it.

So in a society that allows abortion, what are the reasonable restrictions to it? The gateway between potential and actual human seems like the point of no return, but I'm just not sure where that is.

In a perfect sexually-free world with effective birth control, which we thought we were getting with the advent of the Pill, abortions would be unnecessary. We were naive, weren't we?

 

Kow,

I heard about a study in which pre-terms had long-term negative health consequences from - well - being premies. I don't think it takes a genius to understand that a fetus born mid-term or part-way into the final trimester may have some problems as a result. If I had CF or some other such disease in which an abortion would have prevented a life full of pain and misery (and knowing that such may be the case) - I'd be upset that the doctor didn't at least suggest an abortion.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(huskers @ Apr 18 2007, 06:20 PM) [snapback]425647[/snapback]</div>

Personal to the baby you just murdered? Or to the woman who just authorised the doctor to perform the murder?

Why would you offer protection of the laws of the United States to a 2 week old defenseless baby and make the mother keep that child?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Apr 18 2007, 11:23 AM) [snapback]425458[/snapback]</div>

The religious right believes that life begins at the instant of conception, and ends at birth. Therefore it is "murder" to abort a foetus, but it is not murder to drop bombs on cities, killing civilian men, women, and children, or even to drop napalm on civilians, burning many of them to death in horrible agony and horribly disfiguring many others.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Apr 18 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]425484[/snapback]</div>

Desynch, like many of us, does not fit into the conventional categories of "liberal" or "conservative." He takes libertarian positions on many issues, so his "keep the government out of our lives" stance is consistent.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(saechaka @ Apr 18 2007, 05:41 PM) [snapback]425691[/snapback]</div>

Murder comes under state law, therefore the answer is likely to depend on what state you are in, and might even depend on the particular judge and jury. There have been attempts to enact laws defining the murder of a pregnant woman as a double murder. These are generally interpreted by pro-choice activists as attempts to undermine abortion rights by establishing a legal precedent that the foetus is a "person" under the law.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 18 2007, 06:22 PM) [snapback]425704[/snapback]</div>

The problem here is that the most vocal and politically-powerful opponents of abortion are also violently opposed to all forms of birth control other than abstinence, and equally-violently opposed to all sex education other than exhortations to abstinence.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 18 2007, 07:02 PM) [snapback]425672[/snapback]</div>

I don't know if this was directed at me.. but I don't give a damn about Folding@Home or about more laws you want to see put on the books. I don't care about your rude outburst or how strongly you feel about whatever.. I'm not going to install any program on my computer, and I'm especially not taking advise from someone that feels it necessary to tell whomever to "STFU AND GET THE HELL OUT OF THIS TOPIC".

I'm Pro-Choice and I don't have to justify or explain anything to anyone, and especially not you after your little rant.

Stay out of my business, stay out of womens business. We are not the property of the state.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 19 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]425987[/snapback]</div>

Thanks for noticing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 19 2007, 08:30 AM) [snapback]425997[/snapback]</div>

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 19 2007, 02:46 PM) [snapback]426225[/snapback]</div>

[/b][/quote]



:huh:

:blink:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 19 2007, 08:14 AM) [snapback]425987[/snapback]</div>

Below is the California murder statute. It makes the unlawful killing of a fetus a murder, but I don't think that it gives abortion rights advocates anything to worry about:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Apr 18 2007, 10:27 PM) [snapback]425783[/snapback]</div>

Gosh, I'm not sure that I'd describe a "sexually-free world" as perfect...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 19 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]425987[/snapback]</div>

And in this they differ from the Catholic Church that does NOT recognize a 'baby' from the moment of conception but when it is viable. I forget when, but it matches the definition by the medical community.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 19 2007, 10:14 AM) [snapback]425987[/snapback]</div>

Abstinence classes don't stop sex.

"Students who took part in sexual abstinence programs were just as likely to have sex as those who did not, according to a study ordered by Congress.

Also, those who attended one of the four abstinence classes that were reviewed reported having similar numbers of sexual partners as those who did not attend the classes. And they first had sex at about the same age as other students — 14.9 years, according to Mathematica Policy Research Inc."

"The four programs differed in many respects. One was voluntary and took place after school. Three had mandatory attendance and served youth during the school day. All offered more than 50 hours of classes. Two were particularly intensive. The young people met every day of the school year."

Like I said....the Right doesn't want to do anything to stop the food chain for the cannon fodder.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 19 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]426230[/snapback]</div>

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