Pee and poo

I was under the impression the dried, caked sewage could be used for non-food stuff crops (i.e., cotton.) I just reviewed the Wiki entry and understand why I no longer see the long berms of dried sewage south of town. Apparently it led to accumulated heavy metals and chemical collection in the fields.

As for urine collection, there is a separation and collection challenge.

Bob Wilson

 

A candidate for a position here presented pilot scale work done at a waste water treatment plant. They diverted part of plants output through three small ponds in sequence and grew algae. The algae was converted to biocrude through a thermal conversion/depolymerization process. They only made about 8 barrels a day; not enough to financial support the process. But they discovered the algae, which were just naturally occurring species, were producing a calcium compound, which I have completely forgotten the name of. Among other uses, it is used to accelerate bone growth at injury sites. This compound can turn the process into a profit generating one.

Years ago I read of someone looking into growing spirulina for waste water treatment in Africa. The algae could be used for animal or even human feed.

Considering how much of the country has adopted separate grey and black waste water systems(it's still all black under Pa code), collecting urine for farming on a societal scale will be a big challenge. The renewable fuels and coproducts production using waste water as a feed has a smaller hurdle.

Back to poo. The microbes could make up to 80% of it by mass. They also aren't all freeloaders either. Most of us have probably caught ads for probiotic supplements. The little guys release compounds that can be good for us. We get most of our vitamin K from them, which is important for blood clotting operation.

 

Almost all of the human source of vitamin K comes from our diet, typically green leafy vegetables. Gut bacteria can convert dietary plant source K1 to K2. Both function as pro-coagulants to balance our bleeding/clotting pathways.

Except for pathogenic gut bacteria (rare), freeloading is rare. Symbiotic would apply to almost 100% of the bacteria in our guts.

Gut bacteria are tiny compared to our own cells, but outnumber our own cells by nearly 10x. Gut bacteria are important for digestion and the development of our immune system, and they protect us from pathogenic organisms such as clostridium difficile which can cause a nasty and potentially life threatening colitis.

Urine is actually sterile when it exits the body, save for rare cases of a bladder infection or salmonella poising. REIhas nevertheless developed two strategies for eliminating the risk of pathogens, either by solar pasteurization or long-term storage in a warm greenhouse. Both have proven effective.​

As noted in the original thread post, it is a common misconception and repeated in this article that human urine output almost always is sterile. Many individuals, particularly a large percent of postmenopausal females are colonized with bacterial strains such as E. Coli, Klebsiella, Proteus, and Citrobacter. These do not represent urinary tract infections. Additionally, bacteria are commonly picked up upon exiting the urethra as they commonly hang out on the perineal area (the skin encompassing the anal/genital area).

As noted, there are known risks to untreated human fecal waste. Many public health gains have been achieved with properly handling/treating/disposing of this stuff.

Still the possibilities of urine as N and P fertilizer sources sounds intriguing. Even untreated, this stuff theoretically appears to be much safer than feces for agricultural purposes, and those organisms should not represent a problem. One question would be about the potential to propagate antibiotic resistance of these organisms and possibly spread the genes conferring resistance if using untreated urine for fertilizer.

In this case with sterilization, they have probably solved the problem.

 

The first step is more than an engineering problem; the toilets already exist. You have to get guys to sit down.

 

Uh, separating urinal flow from commode is trivial. The hard part is the lady version of a urinal.

Bob Wilson

 

So it is OK to piss on my wife's potted plants?

"No baby I love you facias. I'm just your mirical grow applicator. Sorry about the wall paper."​

Bob Wilson

 

Separately, think of how much fresh water could be saved by a lady version of a urinal.

But then, most men also don't have this water saving tool at home either, only in workplaces and public facilities.

 

Any data about drugs in sewage or wastewater? I've seen occasional reports about the drugs humans consume end up in the waste water stream. Testing for them is rare.

 

Female urinals already exist, and might date back to the '20s. It is more a cultural problem than an engineering one. There are already waterless male ones on some Interstate 95 rest stops. There might not be waterless female versions.

Either way, urinals aren't likely to be installed in homes because of space. But there is already a fix for that.

From the link @2, "A much more realistic option is urine-diverting toilets, which again the Swedes, masters of pee, have reliably engineered.
...
Urine goes in the front side where it’s piped to a holding tank; all other waste and toilet paper falls to the back for composting.

The only complaint on the toilet, says board member Konrad Scheltema, is that the men have to sit to use it. Then again, the requirement keeps Nace’s bathroom clean."

The Stockholm Water Company has already diverted the urine from four housing projects to a grain farmer as part of a study in the '90s.

That will be part of future studies for this group.

"A real concern for Rich Earth? Left over pharmaceuticals that end up in urine. The EPA has selected Rich Earth for funding to conduct a study of traces of drugs in urine with the help of the University of Michigan and SUNY Buffalo."

 

I've seen writeups about various 'innovations' in female urinals over a very long time. But despite having female inventors with first-hand experience, they just don't seem to catch on.

It seems that virtually all new male urinals around here are the 1 pint (0.5 liter) per flush models, mostly in businesses, or waterless no-flush models, mostly in recreational facilities, rest stops, etc. I do see a few of the waterless models in businesses, but it seems that the odor control issue has not been perfected. Either way, this is a major water savings over the previous full gallon per flush standard.

I wonder if it is just coincidence that a previous effort to force males to sit to pee also emanated from the Scandinavian region. Sorry, but not letting men stand to pee is more than just a cultural issue.

 

Kalahari Bushman all squat to urinate, even the men. I suspect that is also so of societies in which the squatting toilet is the norm, and those outnumber are sitting western models in the world.

So I don't see how standing to pee is more than a cultural issue.

 

So I woke from my nap vaguely remembers a science fiction story about a biological critter/spacecraft (Scott Douglas?):

• fed the people a bland portage that kept them alive
• 'flowers' where they pee and poop that handled everything including the 'clean-up'

I think the BBC once made a short series about it. Perhaps someone else remembers more details?

Bob Wilson

 

I've traveled in numerous regions were squat toilets are the norm, and didn't find an absence of male stand-up urinals in any of them.

Are you saying that I'm the only male on the planet who, after sitting down for multitasking, will sometimes stand up to fully complete one of those tasks?